# Uninsured people who oppose healthcare reform **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855 "2009-12-11T13:37:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/321 "2009-12-18T21:31:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not to mention, he’s most likely lying. > > Smashy is downright stupid. He can’t think for himself, and doesn’t have any integrity to speak of. If he is smart then his total lack of critical thinking in this thread only makes him more pathetic. See, I disagree. I don’t think Smashy is stupid. Just someone who drank the right wing kool aid. Oh sure he’ll claim otherwise, but it’s pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/322 "2009-12-19T19:55:15Z")
Sometimes, in my perversity, I think we should give the conservatives everything they wish for. Don’t like government-run anything? Fine. Abolish Social Security and Medicare for a start. Since they’re so much better at managing their lives, they obviously don’t need ‘government handouts’. They can find better deals by buying private insurance, and since they’ve planned so well they don’t need a monthly Social Security check from the gubmint. The strong and the smart will survive. The others can die, and decrease the surplus population. With a decreased population, there will be more jobs than people and the economy will thrive. And we can also make our military pay for their own medical care. Get shot? Good thing you bought private insurance! Cops? Who needs them? That’s what guns are for. Courts? A Real Man can handle his own disputes. I plan to buy up as many roads as I can, and charge people to drive on them. That way people only have to pay for what they use, instead of some government stealing their money to maintain roads they never use. I don’t have kids, and I never will have kids. Why should I pay for someone else’s kids to go to school? They bred, they can take the responsibility. The list goes on! Just think about how much better America would be if only we were all free to demonstrate our own responsibility! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/323 "2009-12-20T07:03:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Sometimes, in my perversity, I think we should give the conservatives everything they wish for. Don’t like government-run anything? Fine. Abolish Social Security and Medicare for a start. Since they’re so much better at managing their lives, they obviously don’t need ‘government handouts’. They can find better deals by buying private insurance, and since they’ve planned so well they don’t need a monthly Social Security check from the gubmint. The strong and the smart will survive. The others can die, and decrease the surplus population. With a decreased population, there will be more jobs than people and the economy will thrive. Not that either SS or Medicare are hand outs, but great idea, as long as they quit _taxing_ us for it too! > [@](#): > > And we can also make our military pay for their own medical care. Get shot? Good thing you bought private insurance! Cops? Who needs them? That’s what guns are for. Courts? A Real Man can handle his own disputes. I plan to buy up as many roads as I can, and charge people to drive on them. That way people only have to pay for what they use, instead of some government stealing their money to maintain roads they never use. When has anyone said they don’t want to pay for any of these things? > [@](#): > > I don’t have kids, and I never will have kids. Why should I pay for someone else’s kids to go to school? They bred, they can take the responsibility. Yes, it would be great if parents would take responsibility for their kids, but in the case of schools, if they were actually teaching the kids even half what they used to, there would be far less bitching about how much they cost. > [@](#): > > Just think about how much better America would be if only we were all free to demonstrate our own responsibility! Yup, it would be a lot like the days before we were being forced to pay to support random strangers simply because they don’t feel like supporting themselves. You know, when one income could support a spouse, house and 2.4 kids? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/324 "2009-12-20T07:15:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Yup, it would be a lot like the days before we were being forced to pay to support random strangers simply because they don’t feel like supporting themselves. You know, when one income could support a spouse, house and 2.4 kids? Yes, damn this living in a society where we are actually expected to care about others! I mean, screw everyone else, what about me? ME!! And weren’t the old days great, when the top marginal tax rate was not 35% like today! Like in the 1940’s when it ranged from 81% - 94%. Or in the 1950’s, when it range from 84% to 91%. Or in the 1960’s when it ranged from 70% to 91%. Or in the 1970’s when the top rate ranged from 70% to 71.75% You know, if you are trying to make the argument that taxes are SOOO terrible today, and are completely responsible for someone with one income not making a go of it, you’d be well advised to acquaint yourself with the historical facts of taxation. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/325 "2009-12-20T07:31:38Z")
[Curlcoat](http://www.theofficialjohncarpenter.com/data/movies/sounds/dsscdata.wav). ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/326 "2009-12-20T08:43:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yes, damn this living in a society where we are actually expected to care about others! I mean, screw everyone else, what about me? ME!! You know, continuing to pretend that those who disagree with your opinions must be talking like monsters really doesn’t say much for the strength of your beliefs. > [@](#): > > And weren’t the old days great, when the top marginal tax rate was not 35% like today! Like in the 1940’s when it ranged from 81% - 94%. Or in the 1950’s, when it range from 84% to 91%. Or in the 1960’s when it ranged from 70% to 91%. Or in the 1970’s when the top rate ranged from 70% to 71.75% And how many middle class folks paid those tax rates back then? Again, it doesn’t say much for your side if you only post the _top_ rate. > [@](#): > > You know, if you are trying to make the argument that taxes are SOOO terrible today, and are completely responsible for someone with one income not making a go of it, you’d be well advised to acquaint yourself with the historical facts of taxation. Idiot. You know, if you are trying to make any argument at all, you could try not pretending the opposition said something they didn’t. Idiot. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Curlcoat](http://www.theofficialjohncarpenter.com/data/movies/sounds/dsscdata.wav). :rolleyes: Tho, this is a good example of what many folk in here do when there might be a chance the will be exposed to something outside their comfort zones… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/327 "2009-12-20T08:48:54Z")
Actually, it’s a logical reaction when we’re talking to someone who’s so dense her head has an event horizon. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/328 "2009-12-20T14:08:04Z")
The Washington Post had a pretty good summary of the issues in today’s lead editorial. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/19/AR2009121902334.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/19/AR2009121902334.html) The WaPo is very left-of-center on most issues, but they make some good arguments for the bill, including a few I agree with. Our conclusions are different, maybe because I’m more of a deficit hawk and a realist when it comes to future Congresses cutting costs/increasing pain - I’ve seen this movie too many times before, they rarely seem to happen. Also, America has a track record of entitlements starting off ‘small’ (if any number in the billions can be called small) but growing out of hand. This is the money shot: > [@](#): > > At a time of unprecedented debt, Congress is preparing to enact a new entitlement program that will cost close to $1 trillion in its first decade, and more thereafter. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that both the Senate and House bills are “paid for,” as Mr. Obama has rightly insisted they must be, with offsetting budget cuts or tax increases. > > But the bulk of those cuts – $500 billion over 10 years to Medicare – are at risk of being scaled back when their effects begin to be felt, as both the CBO and the agency that oversees Medicare have noted. Another $200 billion-plus in costs for physician payments has been set aside to be dealt with in a separate bill, as if that makes them less real. And when the law is fully implemented a few years from now, Congress is sure to come under pressure to increase the subsidies it has provided for families to buy health insurance. The piece goes on to talk about the benefit of getting the insured population from 83% to 94% outweighing those risks, and also some stuff in the bill that’s supposed to give us a chance to control healthcare spending long term (pilot programs, **M4M’s** medical cost-control BRAC-like commission, etc). You can draw your own conclusions of course. But this piece does a reasonable job of summing up my opposition to this bill. And maybe the OP’s buddy’s opposition? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/329 "2009-12-20T21:55:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You know, continuing to pretend that those who disagree with your opinions must be talking like monsters really doesn’t say much for the strength of your beliefs. I did not say you were a monster. I implied that you were selfish. And you are - you bitch about being "forced’ to support random strangers. Boo Hoo - you have to pay money to keep society running. How sad for you that you have to pay taxes to keep people from starving. Move to Somalia - that seems your speed -no government, no taxes, just look after yourself by paying money to the local warlord. > [@curlcoat](#): > > And how many middle class folks paid those tax rates back then? Again, it doesn’t say much for your side if you only post the _top_ rate. Christ, I knew that I"d have to do your research for you. Here you go. And then please shut your pie-hole about how horrible the taxes are now compared to “back in the day”. You’re WRONG. Single/ married filing separately 1940 10,000 14% 20,000 28% 30,000 34% 40.000 40% 50.000 48% 1950 10,000 38% 20,000 56% 30,000 62% 40.000 69% 50,000 75% 1960 10,000 38% 20,000 56% 30,000 62% 40.000 69% 50,000 75% 60,000 78% 1970 10,000 32% 20,000 48% 30,000 53% 40.000 58% 50,000 62% 60,000 64% 1980 10,000 21-24% 20,000 34-43% 30,000 44-54% 40.000 49-54% 50,000 55-59% 60,000 63-64% - lower number = single, higher = married filing separate 1990 10,000 15% 20,000 28% 30,000 28% 40.000 28% 50,000 31% 60,000 31% 70,000 31% 2000 10,000 15% 20,000 15% 30,000 28% 40.000 28% 50,000 31% 60,000 31% 70,000 31% 80,000 36% 90,000 36% 100,000 36% 2009 10,000 15% 20,000 15% 30,000 15% 40.000 25% 50,000 25% 60,000 25% 70,000 28% 80,000 28% 90,000 28% 100,000 28% 110,000 33% ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/330 "2009-12-21T04:11:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > [Pops gore-covered head out of deer carcass]Rowr? _tangent_ Oho! I take it you’re a fan of the famous [Dogs In Elk](http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html) saga? _/tangent_ ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/331 "2009-12-21T05:09:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Actually, it’s a logical reaction when we’re talking to someone who’s so dense her head has an event horizon. Your immature responses are noted and held against your side of the debate. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I did not say you were a monster. I implied that you were selfish. You essentially stated that I didn’t care about anyone but myself. Sounds pretty monstrous eh? > [@](#): > > And you are - you bitch about being "forced’ to support random strangers. Boo Hoo - you have to pay money to keep society running. How sad for you that you have to pay taxes to keep people from starving. Move to Somalia - that seems your speed -no government, no taxes, just look after yourself by paying money to the local warlord. It’s just amazing that you all don’t see that your position is also selfish. Which of course is to be expected, since healthy egos are selfish. But to pretend that forcing your opinion on what is best for society on the rest of us isn’t selfish? I have no problem paying to keep society running. What I have a big problem with is paying to keep more and more people sitting on their backsides their whole lives. Again, look into what is happening with California for an example of how society evolves when bleeding hearts make it easy for people to get by without having to work for it. Handing them government subsidized health care is just another step towards that socialist society you all claim you don’t want. It’s no wonder we have to support so many people the way you all encourage people to blither off into life without a plan or a clue. > [@](#): > > Christ, I knew that I"d have to do your research for you. Yes, you do. If you want to use a fact as proof of some point you want to make, you will actually have to post that fact, not expect me to wander about Google trying to figure out what you are talking about. I will not do your work for you. However, since you couldn’t be bothered to provide a cite for where you got these numbers, nor put them into context, I have no idea if I am WRONG or not… Not to mention that you posted only the single/filing separately, when I was obviously talking about married couples filing jointly way back when. > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > _tangent_ > > Oho! I take it you’re a fan of the famous [Dogs In Elk](http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html) saga? > > _/tangent_ I don’t know about **Lobohan** , but I’ve always thought that thing is funny as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/332 "2009-12-21T05:29:48Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > _tangent_ > > Oho! I take it you’re a fan of the famous [Dogs In Elk](http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html) saga? > > _/tangent_ I’d never seen that before, but it is pretty funny. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/333 "2009-12-21T05:30:03Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I have no problem paying to keep society running. What I have a big problem with is paying to keep more and more people sitting on their backsides their whole lives. Again, look into what is happening with California for an example of how society evolves when bleeding hearts make it easy for people to get by without having to work for it. Handing them government subsidized health care is just another step towards that socialist society you all claim you don’t want. Just another example of why people think you are a malletheaded idiot who refuses to read the bill, and believes everything she is spoonfed by Glenn Beck. Even with the public option (which was removed), very, very few people would qualify for free health insurance. The vast majority of people that would gain coverage under the Senate bill will be paying premiums for their health insurance. You refuse to acknowledge that, because it would demolish your carefully constructed liberal hatred house of cards. That’s why everyone here sees you for what you are; a willfully ignorant extremist that cannot be bothered to read the facts, content to wallow in ignorance and blame others for all your problems. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/334 "2009-12-21T06:14:40Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You essentially stated that I didn’t care about anyone but myself. Sounds pretty monstrous eh? No, that’s the fucking definition of selfish. Which you are. > [@curlcoat](#): > > It’s just amazing that you all don’t see that your position is also selfish. Which of course is to be expected, since healthy egos are selfish. But to pretend that forcing your opinion on what is best for society on the rest of us isn’t selfish? No, it is not selfish, since I’m not “forcing my opinion” on you; The taxation legislation has not been “forced on you” by anyone. It is the result of laws passed by your elected representatives. Take a civics class for fucks sake. > [@curlcoat](#): > > Yes, you do. If you want to use a fact as proof of some point you want to make, you will actually have to post that fact, not expect me to wander about Google trying to figure out what you are talking about. I will not do your work for you. However, since you couldn’t be bothered to provide a cite for where you got these numbers, nor put them into context, I have no idea if I am WRONG or not… Not to mention that you posted only the single/filing separately, when I was obviously talking about married couples filing jointly way back when. Read this if you’re able: [http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html](http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html) It does have lots of numbers and big words, but maybe you can get someone to explain it to you. Bottom line? You cannot blame “increased taxation” for your poor hypothetical person who can’t support a spouse, house and 2.4 kids on one income. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/335 "2009-12-21T07:39:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re as bad as **Knorf** cutting out everything substantive in my posts and complaining that I won’t debate. Hey, I was praising the improved tone of the debate only a page or so ago. Including you! :eek: (Pssst. [Post 165](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11888743&postcount=165).) And, come on **Shodan** , you know you’re the king of the vitriol-laden one liner. You often enjoy trying to score points off other people rather than debate them honestly. When you do debate honestly, I enjoy reading your posts, or at least respect them. I wish you did it more often. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/336 "2009-12-21T08:04:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The CBO thinks you’re wrong. > > And for that matter, so do I. Care to produce some cites for your doom and gloom? Well, no, I don’t have the figures but it stands to reason if you need to collect for 10 years and only spend for five there’s some problem with things adding or not adding up. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/337 "2009-12-21T08:17:55Z")
> [@PhiloVance](#): > > Well, no, I don’t have the figures but it stands to reason if you need to collect for 10 years and only spend for five there’s some problem with things adding or not adding up. It takes time and money to set up large systems. The Exchange will require startup money, but it more than pays for itself in the long run. Like say you want to start a lemonade stand, you need to pay for the stand and lemons before you start selling. Doesn’t that make sense to you? ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/338 "2009-12-21T15:33:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It takes time and money to set up large systems. The Exchange will require startup money, but it more than pays for itself in the long run. > > Like say you want to start a lemonade stand, you need to pay for the stand and lemons before you start selling. > > Doesn’t that make sense to you? If you say so! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/339 "2009-12-21T16:11:05Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Not to mention that you posted only the single/filing separately, when I was obviously talking about married couples filing jointly way back when.. Holy fucking shit on a dog’s anus, Batman. You sound like Joe Pesci from My Cousin Vinny. “Oh I didn’t mean Jerry Callo, I meant Jerry Gallo! With a G” Fine you whiney McSimpleton. Here’s your list of married couples filing jointly [http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php#fn-2](http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php#fn-2) You know how difficult this was to find? How long do you think it took me to go to Google and type in “historical income tax rates” and click on the very first link that came up. Fucking hell, with the auto fill button on you only need to put in “historical inc” and Google will spot you the “ome tax rates” Do some fucking research on your own. Learn a goddamned thing or two. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855/340 "2009-12-21T16:29:40Z")
> [@PhiloVance](#): > > If you say so! :rolleyes: Let me get this straight. Were you pissy about the interstate system because you couldn’t drive on it day one? Your objection isn’t sensible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uninsured-people-who-oppose-healthcare-reform/520855.md?page=18)