# Uniquely Distinct Americanisms **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676 "2004-01-22T22:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/281 "2004-01-30T01:46:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > First off, England does have at least one specifically-composed national anthem. It was written by Michael Flanders and Donald Swann, and is definitely worth a look. It’s lyrics can be found [here](http://www.wadham.ox.ac.uk/~ebaldwin/oules/myths/prejudice.html). Thanks for that, **Max**. I wonder why it never caught on? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tadc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@tadc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tadc)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/282 "2004-01-30T01:48:15Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > **Brown paper shopping bags** - as seen on TV - dont know if other parts of world use these. Has to be better for the environment than the plastic ones they use here in Oz that kill dolphins and other cuddly animals. These have been on their way out for the last decade or so. For a while you used to get asked “paper or plastic?” but now they usually just use plastic unless you ask. > [@antechinus](#): > > **Taking loudly in public** - noticed this traveling. True, but I’ve also noticed a fair bit of loud (drunken) talking on the part of other english-speakers (British, Australian). > [@antechinus](#): > > **Food quantity** is seen as more important than quality - from talking to other travellers and my experience in NYC. True. Ever been to Vegas? A quote, reviewing the Circus Circus buffet comes to mind: “Go here for breakfast ($2.49) some morning. Not because it is good, but because it is BAD. The buffet looks like the mess hall of a hellish penitentiary run by sadistic clowns. The decor is pink, red and white, with cartoonish murals of circus animals doing stupid stuff. After you pay, a system of barriers guide you down one of five (count ‘em, five) 100’ long steam tables groaning under the weight of greasy eggs, utility grade meat, cholesterol-laden gravy, crusted oatmeal and low-grade blintzes dried to leathery perfection by brilliant heat-lamps.” 🙂 Do such culinary monstrosities (all-you-can-eat buffets) exist outside of North America? > [@antechinus](#): > > **Country of extremes** - as has been noted before. eg so much violence but so many really nice people. Violence is really more appearance than reality. At least on this coast… > [@antechinus](#): > > **Driving instead of walking** short distances - this may be a myth. More of a Californianism than Americanism. Or maybe a Los Angelesism. Has something to do with the fact that practically nothing is within walking distance, and/or the terrain between here and there is very hostile to pedestrians. > [@antechinus](#): > > **Eating chineese take away out of cardboard boxes** - cool. What, am I supposed to dirty a plate just to eat some leftover chinese food? 🙂 The biggest problem with those take-out boxes is the little metal “handle” that prevents you from just sticking the whole thing in the microwave. 🙂 Some additions: “American” cheese (aka processed cheese food product) Chocolate chip cookies (I once bought a bag of “American cookies” in Holland just to see what they were… just plain old chocolate chip). Pathetically low speed limits/bad drivers/shoddy vehicles Prohibition of alcohol in public (outside of bars) McMansions and land yahts Scones are called biscuits, biscuits are called cookies, cookies called cupcakes. Monochrome currency and distain for large-denomination coins (dollar coin failure). Pathetic public transportation. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/283 "2004-01-30T02:04:59Z")
> [@porkchop\_d\_clown](#): > > “Under God” does, in fact, generate a fair amount of controversy in the US. But, in general, I’d agree that most Americans see “God Bless America” to be innocuous, on the order of saying “God Bless You” when you sneeze, or even “Good Bye” (Which is a corruption of God Be With You, IIRC. That might just be a myth, I suppose.) > > Still, as I said before - while it does occur, it’s not as if it happens at every speech or public gathering. Rarely enough to allow Jervise to count the number of time it happens, actually. (1) I thought it was a myth too, but the M-W agrees that “good-bye” is descended from “God be with you”. Who knew? (2) I’m not sure where you’ve gotten the idea that ANYONE in this thread has asserted that “God Bless America” occurs at every speech and gathering. I’ve certainly been quite explicit that that’s is NOT what I’m asserting. Then again, if you want a strawman to bash–have at it. (3) Your pretense that “God Bless America” is a rare occurence is getting beyond ridiculous. It’s common enough that I couldn’t even attempt to count the number of times it occurs–so stop pretending that’s what I’ve tried to do. This [site](http://reason.com/rauch/99_06_26.shtml) agrees that President Reagan ended all his big speeches with a call for God’s blessing; that President Bush ended all major speeches with a variant of "Thank you, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America!’’; and that Bill Clinton called on God’s blessing at seven State of the Union Addresses and two inaugurations. This [article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A11573-2004Jan12¬Found=true) clearly states that ending speeches with “God Bless America” is “standard American political pablum”. Sure doesn’t that sound like a rare occurence to me. And don’t get me started on the current President Bush or Senator Liebermann: it would be far easier to count the number of times these guys _don’t_ end a speech with an exhortation to God. … so I think my point (you know, my _actual_ point–not the imaginary one you attack) that… > [@](#): > > American politicians name-checking God and discussing their faith in public. To an outsider, “God bless America!” really is an bizarre thing to hear …is an unusual feature of the United States, really _does_ stand up to the evidence. Wouldn’t you agree? (3) **everton** : yup, we get the flat plastic boxes, not the white cardboard things (only home-soil place I’ve seen the cardboard takeaway containers is Sydney’s domestic airport). Like **C3** ’s friends, I admit I just had to buy Chinese in the little white boxes in the US (don’t bother: they _leak_!) ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/284 "2004-01-30T02:34:34Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > … > > **Brown paper shopping bags** - as seen on TV - dont know if other parts of world use these. Has to be better for the environment than the plastic ones they use here in Oz that kill dolphins and other cuddly animals. > > … > > **Driving instead of walking** short distances - this may be a myth. Now there’s an interesting viewpoint! In America, people have been trying to do away with paper bags for years - to stop killing trees, you see. As for driving - as CT mentioned, much of suburban America has become positively hostile to pedestrian traffic. It’s at least partly because no one wants to pay to install and maintain sidewalks. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/285 "2004-01-30T02:38:22Z")
> [@everton](#): > > Come off it. You surely can’t pretend that the long-term conversation between Americans and Europeans has been us picking on you? There are endless examples of foreigners being negatively stereotyped throughout popular culture in the United States, not just recently but as far back as you want to go. The SDMB is full of it too. > > A Monty Python sketch? Please – who appeared on that show _without_ being ridiculed? > > Put the violins away; if you take your share of abuse you give it out too. Anybody who read the OP of this thread and took it as an opportunity to accuse Americans of being ridiculous was wrong, of course, but if you’re suggesting that you are generally the butt of the joke and it’s time you stood up for yourselves against the nasty Eurotrash then you really are being ridiculous. I really enjoy reading this sort of thing right after being told how thin-skinned Americans are. Three paragraphs of abuse about how Americans aren’t being abused. Spiffy. So let’s see how this works: American says “Well, I think X, Y and Z.” Euroweenie says “You idiot! How can you think that! What a whiner!” American says “Why are you abusing me?” Euroweenie replies “What a thin skinned cry baby! You’re just stereotyping me!” American goes home. Euroweenie turns to his buddy and says “See - they don’t behave like civilized people!” ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/286 "2004-01-30T02:43:45Z")
> [@everton](#): > > Come off it. You surely can’t pretend that the long-term conversation between Americans and Europeans has been us picking on you? There are endless examples of foreigners being negatively stereotyped throughout popular culture in the United States, not just recently but as far back as you want to go. The SDMB is full of it too. > > A Monty Python sketch? Please – who appeared on that show _without_ being ridiculed? > > Put the violins away; if you take your share of abuse you give it out too. Anybody who read the OP of this thread and took it as an opportunity to accuse Americans of being ridiculous was wrong, of course, but if you’re suggesting that you are generally the butt of the joke and it’s time you stood up for yourselves against the nasty Eurotrash then you really are being ridiculous. I really enjoy reading this sort of thing right after being told how thin-skinned Americans are. Three paragraphs of abuse about how Americans aren’t being abused. Spiffy. So let’s see how this works: American says “Well, I think X, Y and Z.” Euroweenie says “You idiot! How can you think that! What a whiner!” American says “Why are you abusing me?” Euroweenie replies “What a thin skinned cry baby! You’re just stereotyping me!” American goes home. Euroweenie turns to his buddy and says “See - they don’t behave like civilized people!” ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/287 "2004-01-30T02:44:21Z")
> [@everton](#): > > It’s strange the things that stand out to foreign eyes, but in Britain, Chinese (and Indian) takeaway food comes in flat foil or plastic boxes like the ones shown [here](http://www.cateringdisposables.biz/disposable-containers.html) (scroll down). I don’t know what they use in Oz, but I’d guess it would be the same? We’ve started using similar containers in my area of Pennsylvania - except for the rice. That still comes in the traditional waxed cardboard box. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/288 "2004-01-30T03:06:40Z")
> [@porkchop\_d\_clown](#): > > I really enjoy reading this sort of thing right after being told how thin-skinned Americans are. Three paragraphs of abuse about how Americans aren’t being abused. Careful. You’re playing with with straw men yourself now. > [@](#): > > We’ve started using similar containers in my area of Pennsylvania - except for the rice. That still comes in the traditional waxed cardboard box. That’s going to disappoint a few tourists then, but the plastic boxes (here at least) have printing on to say they’re microwaveable. ---
**Author:** ![toomuchtv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@toomuchtv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toomuchtv)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/289 "2004-01-30T03:31:27Z")
> [@boofy\_bloke](#): > > Is it true that Yanks only like to watch films about Yanks? (Art-house notwithstanding.) No. We like to watch movies about Brits a lot, even if they feature Americans or Canadians playing Brits, and especially in trilogies and series: Harry Potter, Austin Powers, Lara Croft, Dr. No Parts 1 through 22 (aka the James Bond films). We even made room in our hearts (and our VCRs) several times for some Aussie bloke named Mick Dundee. The Oscars are an imperfect measure of what’s popular in America, but not by much. In 19 of the last 50 years, the movies that won the most Oscars were not about Yanks. And most of them were voted Best Picture. 1956: Around the World in 80 Days, 5 (Best Picture) 1956: The Kind and I, 5 1957: The Bridge on the River Kwai, 7 (Best Picture) 1958: Gigi, 9 (Best Picture) 1959: Ben-Hur, 11 (Best Picture) 1962: Lawrence of Arabia , 7 (Best Picture) 1964: My Fair Lady, 8 (Best Picture) 1965: Doctor Zhivago, 5 1965: The Sound of Music, 5 (Best Picture) 1966: A Man for All Seasons, 6 (Best Picture) 1968: Oliver!, 5 (Best Picture) 1972: Cabaret, 8 1982: Ghandi, 8 (Best Picture) 1984: Amadeus, 8 (Best Picture) 1985: Out of Africa, 7 (Best Picture) 1987: The Last Emperor, 9 (Best Picture) 1993: Schindler’s List, 7 (Best Picture) 1995: Braveheart, 5 (Best Picture) 1997: The English Patient, 9 (Best Picture) 1998: Shakespeare in Love, 7 (Best Picture) 2000: Gladiator, 5 (Best Picture) 2000: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, 4 (not bad for a flick with subtitles) Don’t know who will win the most awards for 2004, but the films with the most nominations are Return of the King, with 14; and Master & Commander: The Far Side of the World, with 10. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/290 "2004-01-30T03:35:13Z")
> [@everton](#): > > Careful. You’re playing with with straw men yourself now. Perhaps. Perhaps it’s a difference in conversational style, so that each side is misreading the tone of the other side. I suspect, though, that the shoulder-chips in this thread are not all on the American side. On the subject of Chinese food - one thing I’m curious about is what kind of dishes they actually serve up over in your neck of the woods - an oft repeated tale around here is that “Chinese” food in America is more American than Chinese. For example: I always get “General Tso’s Chicken” which is a spicy dish with a sugary sauce; my wife always gets “Shrimp with Lobster Sauce” which always reminds me of a very thin New England Clam Chowder, poured over rice. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/291 "2004-01-30T03:42:54Z")
> [@tadc](#): > > Pathetic public transportation. Depends on where you go. Some places have excellent public transportation (Milwaukee), while others have terrible (Jackson). Anyways, question for non-Americans. Over the last 5 or 6 years I’ve noticed Chinese buffet restaurants popping up absolutely everywhere. Everywhere. Is this common anywhere else, or just the places I’ve lived (2 cities) and visited(about 15 more cities scattered all over the country) over the last few years? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/292 "2004-01-30T03:59:47Z")
> [@porkchop\_d\_clown](#): > > Perhaps it’s a difference in conversational style, so that each side is misreading the tone of the other side. I suspect, though, that the shoulder-chips in this thread are not all on the American side. The sense of my post could’ve been read in the content, not the tone. You’re right about the shoulder-chips though. > [@](#): > > On the subject of Chinese food - one thing I’m curious about is what kind of dishes they actually serve up over in your neck of the woods - an oft repeated tale around here is that “Chinese” food in America is more American than Chinese. > > For example: I always get “General Tso’s Chicken” which is a spicy dish with a sugary sauce; my wife always gets “Shrimp with Lobster Sauce” which always reminds me of a very thin New England Clam Chowder, poured over rice. It really depends where you’re buying it. We have sit down restaurants with several authentic regional variations, especially in cities where there are lots of Chinese people. Cantonese is most common due to the Hong Kong connection, even in places that describe themselves as Mandarin/Pekinese. Takeaway places are a different matter though. My niece works part-time in a Chinese takeaway and the food she eats with the staff is not the same stuff they serve to customers. A quick check of my local takeaway menu includes numerous variations on the theme of “meat or prawn/sauce/rice or noodles”, plus the following set menus: \*Skewered Satay Chicken Sweet & Sour Pork Cantonese Style Chicken with Mixed Greens Beef with Ginger and Spring Onion (i.e. scallion) Special Fried Rice (i.e. with bits of pork, chicken and prawn mixed in) Aromatic Crispy Duck Seaweed with Grated Scallop Sweet & Sour Pork Cantonese Style Garlic Chilli Prawns Chicken with Mixed Greens Chicken in Lemon Sauce Capital Ribs (i.e. in a sort of bbq sauce) Special Fried Rice Whole Lobster Baked in Ginger & Spring Onion Skewered Satay King Prawns Prawn Crackers Sweet & Sour King Prawns Cantonese Style King Prawns with Mixed Greens Cantonese Style Fried Squid with Garlic Salt and Chilli Special Fried Rice\* Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/293 "2004-01-30T04:17:29Z")
> [@everton](#): > > Sound familiar? If you substitute “Shrimp” for “Prawn” and “Mixed Vegatables” for “Mixed Greens” most of it sounds similar. The only ones that really stood out were “Seaweed with Grated Scallop” and “Fried Squid”. Those names would seriously startle the typical American, I think. Other than that, I noticed a heavier emphasis on sea food and a lot less pork. Also, you don’t see duck on the menu very often in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/294 "2004-01-30T05:04:20Z")
oh forgot this one … **Walking around with large insulated mug of coffee**. Saw this in Canada too. But very American. In Oz: Take away containers for Indian, Thai and Chineese food are thin injection molded plastic (not sure what type) with a clip on plastic lid. I usually feel guilty about throwing them out so I wash them up and add them to my evergrowing pile of plastic containers. \*\*Merijeek \*\* We dont have any (many) buffet Chineese restaurants here. Havent noticed any anyway. [Yum cha restaurants](http://www.eatability.com.au/au/sydney/cuisines/yum_cha.htm) are very popular. ---
**Author:** ![porkchop\_d\_clown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/295 "2004-01-30T05:11:26Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > oh forgot this one … > > **Walking around with large insulated mug of coffee**. Saw this in Canada too. But very American. But how do you stay awake without one?!? I must say I drink 32 oz of coffee during my commute to work each day and it doesn’t stop once I get to the office… ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/296 "2004-01-30T05:52:17Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Not a good example: actual use of a generational number beyond “3rd” or “III” is extremely rare (I’m a genealogist, and I’ve never seen it happen). My cousin was born Joseph IV. Our great-grandfather didn’t die until Joey was four and our grampy was alive then too. I’ve never heard of dropping/changing the numbers after the older relatives’ deaths before this; does that mean he should go by Joseph Jr now that our great-grandfather and grampy have both passed on? FTR, he goes by just “Joey” now and everyone calls his dad “Joe” but I’m wondering about formalities. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/297 "2004-01-30T06:21:01Z")
> [@](#): > > it’s just advertising misrepresentation to encourage fans to spend more money. My problem is that the WS exists only in one (and a bit) countries, making the advertising executives even BIGGER wankers than usual. Yes, you’re agreeing in a manner of speaking, but you insist on nearly bursting a blood vessel because this playoff isn’t what you thought it was. Seriously, let it go. You’re not much for business, either, it seems. I wonder how some people those jobs they keep wanting are actually created. ---
**Author:** ![tadc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@tadc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tadc)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/298 "2004-01-30T07:14:36Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Depends on where you go. Some places have excellent public transportation (Milwaukee), while others have terrible (Jackson). I live in a city that is frequently used as an example of one of the best public transportation systems in the US(Portland, OR). It is sad and pathetic compared to the transit system in pretty much any european city. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/299 "2004-01-30T12:10:44Z")
Merijeek writes: \> Over the last 5 or 6 years I’ve noticed Chinese buffet restaurants popping up \> absolutely everywhere. Everywhere. \> \> Is this common anywhere else, or just the places I’ve lived (2 cities) and visited \> (about 15 more cities scattered all over the country) over the last few years? Not only are these restaurants common in the U.S., but on my trip to the U.K. last year, I noticed that they’re now common there too. antechinus writes: \> Merijeek We dont have any (many) buffet Chineese restaurants here. Havent \> noticed any anyway. Yum cha restaurants are very popular. “Yum cha” is called “dim sum” in the U.S. (Yes, I know that “dim sum” means something else in Australia.) There are a fair amount of such restaurants in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676/300 "2004-01-30T13:05:50Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > My cousin was born Joseph IV. Our great-grandfather didn’t die until Joey was four and our grampy was alive then too. I’ve never heard of dropping/changing the numbers after the older relatives’ deaths before this; does that mean he should go by Joseph Jr now that our great-grandfather and grampy have both passed on? FTR, he goes by just “Joey” now and everyone calls his dad “Joe” but I’m wondering about formalities. Precisely, at least if I recall Miss Manners correctly - but even she acknowledged that it has become a rule observed mainly in the breach. I suspect it’s been a fairly recent change, which is why **Walloon** ’s geneological records would rarely go above III - most IVs and beyond are probably still walking around. I’ve known quite a few IVs here in the Northeast, at least in practising law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uniquely-distinct-americanisms/225676.md?page=16)