# Unite the Right Racist Scum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471 "2017-08-12T22:19:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/261 "2017-08-13T13:35:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m not very sympathetic to the Occupy movement for the reasons you alluded to, but there is still a difference between the ideas that they represent and those of the neo-confederates. In the case of Occupy, their ideas are not inherently violent. Arguing for a more equitable society, that rich people pay more taxes, that government regulate businesses better, and otherwise provide for common welfare is not ideology that threatens the fabric of stable society. Where Occupy goes wrong is in their tactics, and there are ways to deal with those tactics that people on both sides of the political spectrum can agree on. Few liberals I know of would disagree that blocking interstate traffic is inherently dangerous and that people who do this sort of thing ought to be tossed in the clink, even if we might sympathize with their message. > > The neo-confederate message is quite different. You cannot march with Nazi and Confederate flags and claim that you’re promoting peace. Promoting ideas of one group’s superiority over another, one group’s right to dominate others is not, as history has shown, an innocuous message. There is no peaceful ways to subjugate everyone else; that requires violence to carry into effect. Nazis didn’t subjugate Jews with peace. It wasn’t peace that allowed Whites to enslave Black Americans. It was violence. Any message that advocates such a regime is inherently violent speech. People need to cut the bullshit. This still seems to fall under general “un-American activities”. The Dies Committee wasn’t just targeting Commies, although they did it with more relish than when going after any other group, they targeted any organization bent on overthrowing the constitutional order. I actually think there’s a reasonable argument for going back to that, but I think it first requires acknowledging that maybe they had a point. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/262 "2017-08-13T13:37:43Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I join in your atheistic prayer. But to frame it in **octopusian** terms, it’s no surprise that things are escalating. Jews objecting to being exterminated by Nazis was bound to lead to something like this. Did she miss Skokie? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/263 "2017-08-13T13:49:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That’s an intriguing claim. So back it up. Give me the logic for how allowing these sorts of things is good for you, or, presumably, us. [Why the ACLU defends shitty people](https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/how-could-you-represent-someone-milo-yiannopoulos). They’re talking here about that asshole Milo, but I think the implications for Nazis are clear. > [@](#): > > Without free speech protections, all civil rights advocacy could be shut down by the people in power, precisely because government doesn’t agree with the ideas activists advance. That was true of the civil rights fights of the past, it’s true of the movements facing pitched battles today, and it will be true of the movements of the future that are still striving to be heard. > … > Protecting the First Amendment rights of all of these speakers is crucial to the ability of civil rights movements to make the change we need to make. When we’re talking about oppressed groups espousing what are often minority viewpoints, the danger of being censored is not just theoretical, it happens all the time. Fighting against that censorship is part of how we ensure that the voices of the marginalized do not disappear from public view. > … > the Constitution’s guarantee that we can speak our minds, regardless of what the government thinks about our views, has been crucial to our ability to be out about who we are and what we believe, to share our stories, and to build public support for our equality, dignity, and survival. Allowing government the leeway to “protect” others from our views silences us. And silence means an end to the progress we have been making across a wide range of issues, all over the country. > > Some people may say that Mr. Yiannopoulos’ offensive speech sets him apart and doesn’t deserve to be defended. But the sad reality is that many people think that speech about sexuality, gender identity, or abortion is over the line as well. They’ll say that abortion is murder, civil rights advocates are criminals, or LGBT advocates are trying to recruit children into deviant and perverse lifestyles. If First Amendment protections are eroded at any level, it’s not hard to imagine the government successfully pushing one or more of those arguments in court. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/264 "2017-08-13T13:49:44Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I do not feel that suppressing such speech is a bad thing. I do. I want such nastiness out in the open where it can be lampooned, derided, and ridiculed for the hate speech it is rather than fester in secrecy. Let those who say such evil be seen and then be publicly known. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/265 "2017-08-13T14:03:45Z")
I don’t need to know WHO the racists are, anymore than I need to know who any of you are on this board. What I do need is for your ideas to be out in the open so i can rebut them. What possible reason could I have to need to know who any of you are? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/266 "2017-08-13T14:03:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I do. I want such nastiness out in the open where it can be lampooned, derided, and ridiculed for the hate speech it is rather than fester in secrecy. Let those who say such evil be seen and then be publicly known. I agree, but the premise only works if there is sustained and explicit derision from the highest places. That is the problem right now- our highest leader is not only NOT giving vigorous opposition, he has let it come into the WH and have his ear. That’s why people are more afraid today- the threat seems more real, more credible, more plausible. The more credible the threat the more vigorous the opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/267 "2017-08-13T14:22:08Z")
> [@Amara\_1](#): > > I hope you didn’t forget arresting and charging with terrorism any of the white supremacists who started any fighting. They can march all they want but their toxic world view needs to be shouted down at all times and they should be bearing full culpability of their actions. We are 100% in agreement on that. > [@](#): > > I’m not the earlier posters in this thread but today is a day to vent. Tomorrow is soon enough to take a deep breath and calm down. Calling for people to have Vulcan levels of calm today without knowing their circumstances isn’t realistic. For many of us, this isn’t theoretical and we are the ones who are being directly targeted by this display. I’ve been dancing between anger, shock, grief and fear all day. I am furious that my children will be dealing with this; although the younger one can pass. Not sure about the older one. > > Can you imagine the difference in how black people dressed in camo and bearing semi-automatic weapons would have been treated? You have my sympathies. There’s a high probability my husband and I, who are white, will be adopting a child of a different race (we put on the form we are open to any race, and the numbers game will likely have it shake out that way), and we struggle daily with how we are going to prepare the kid to live in a world full of that much hate. The people in this thread who have minimized the ideology and actions of white supremacists should be utterly ashamed of themselves. While I am an advocate of free speech, this egregious display of hatred might be called the ‘‘worst case consequence’’ of our first amendment rights as currently framed. The constitution prevailed, they got to hold their shitty protest, and people died. They are not victims of oppression, they are human scum. I’ve made great efforts to try to understand the motives of Trump supporters and give them a benefit of a doubt, but there is absolutely no excuse at this point. Your President just _failed to condemn white supremacy._ Do you fucking understand this? He took a lukewarm approach toward people openly and proudly advocating genocide. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/268 "2017-08-13T14:32:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I do. I want such nastiness out in the open where it can be lampooned, derided, and ridiculed for the hate speech it is rather than fester in secrecy. Let those who say such evil be seen and then be publicly known. This is an academic argument that I see from time to time, but I don’t think it holds water. I don’t really see how the rhetoric of one group violently dominating others gets ‘lampooned’. It’s a joke only to the people who aren’t the ones who have to bear the cost of the violence. To those who are the subject of hatred, it’s just not a laughing matter at all. They’re not interested in watching an SNL skit about it. They just want it to stop so they can go on chasing the elusive ideals of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and equal protection under the law. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/269 "2017-08-13T14:48:31Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > but the premise only works if there is sustained and explicit derision from the highest places. I disagree. Look at the reaction to Thatcher’s Poll tax for an example. The sustained derision was started and maintained at the lowest levels, and migrated upwards. > [@asahi](#): > > This is an academic argument that I see from time to time, but I don’t think it holds water. Sure it does. If it is public knowledge that Jane Bloggs is a racist, are you more or less likely do do business with her? Employ her? Socialise with her? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/270 "2017-08-13T15:00:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I disagree. Look at the reaction to Thatcher’s Poll tax for an example. The sustained derision was started and maintained at the lowest levels, and **migrated** upwards. I didn’t say started at the highes levels. The highest levels here has not vigorously come out against this. And since the Nazi supporters themselves are saying this is Trump’s promise made real, there is even a greater need for him to come forward. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/271 "2017-08-13T15:02:15Z")
> **[Charlottesville crash suspect James Fields brandished shield for Vanguard...](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/charlottesville-suspect-held-hate-group-shield-attack-article-1.3407245)** > > James Fields brandished a shield emblazoned with a white supremacist emblem before plowing his sports car into a crowd protesting his rally. James Alex Fields, photographed hours before he drove into a crowd and killed at least one, wielding a white supremacist group’s shield in a crowd with other white supremacists in preparation for the white supremacist rally. Yes, it’s reasonable at this point to assert that the white supremacists are responsible for the vast majority of yesterday’s violence. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/272 "2017-08-13T15:03:10Z")
I remember the tired requests from John McCain, when he was running for president, to please knock off the “he’s a muslim!”, etc. I wish we were seeing some equivalent now. ETA: re: not seeing condemnation from the top. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/273 "2017-08-13T15:21:23Z")
Yes, all the peaceful Nazis peacefully assembled (from all over the country, it seems) were attacked by Antifas who sprang up in Charlottesville with a bigger crowd. And this poor youg guy was just trying to get away when he accidentally plowed into the crowd. Give me an effin’ break. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/274 "2017-08-13T15:24:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nah. You hate folks who declare themselves Nazis. You fuckin love the ideology and defend it every chance you get, and there’s no doubt which side you’d have chosen in 1930 Germany. But you don’t want to be seen with the actual swastika. I am Jewish. Dozens of my relatives were killed in the Holocaust. You’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/275 "2017-08-13T15:25:29Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Pfft! Those Nazi protesters are sub-human. I could not care less what happens to them. Officers, take whatever actions you feel are necessary Yes, let’s let the govt run amok disregarding people’s rights. That is excellent and always works out well. What could go wrong? > [@ataraxy22](#): > > Jeezus fucking Christ there are a lot of fascist apologists here these days, from smarmy assholes like Shodan and Bricker who think they are leading authorities on everything, to out-and-out scum like Okrahoma and octopus! I STRONGLY urge the Moderators and Administrators to take a long look at what the SDMB is becoming, because it is not on a good path. Increasingly, when I want intellectual discussion and reasoned discussion, I have to go elsewhere. Does “fascist apologist” cover the folks who wish for the police to act as jury and executioner for their fellow citizens? Or is that a different flavor of asshole? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/276 "2017-08-13T15:31:40Z")
I guess [this](http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/national/charlottesville-suspect-held-hate-group-shield-attack-article-1.3407245) should put the whole “false flag” thing to bed. There are pictures of the driver with the “Vanguard America” group, who, as you can imagine are not nice. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/277 "2017-08-13T15:35:24Z")
One does not have to support Nazis to be opposed to the gov engaging in summary executions of its citizens. One can be opposed to both simultaneously afaict. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/278 "2017-08-13T15:37:01Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I guess [this](http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/national/charlottesville-suspect-held-hate-group-shield-attack-article-1.3407245) should put the whole “false flag” thing to bed. There are pictures of the driver with the “Vanguard America” group, who, as you can imagine are not nice. I beat you by 29 minutes and 5 posts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/279 "2017-08-13T15:38:16Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I am Jewish. Dozens of my relatives were killed in the Holocaust. You’re an idiot. In the context of this thread what you said then makes you look like a useful idiot. Read the OP again and be aware that you are at least grossly mistaken about what you are defending here. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/280 "2017-08-13T15:45:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > In the context of this thread what you said then makes you look like a useful idiot. Read the OP again and be aware that you are at least grossly mistaken about what you are defending here. I am defending the right of people to have any political view at all. I am also defending the right of people to demonstrate for any political view without being violently attacked. No matter how misguided or vile the political view is. That is an absolute. And that also includes leftists waving red flags and hammer/sickle regalia, symbols under which a few more of my relatives were killed. If those opposed to the Nazis held this view, the Nazis would not get what they wanted - enormous exposure that will only, unfortunately, help them in their recruitment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471.md?page=15)