# Unite the Right Racist Scum **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471 "2017-08-12T22:19:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/341 "2017-08-13T22:14:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Uh… you seriously think that the only Germans opposed to the Nazis where those with Jewish ancestry? > > [Please do educate yourself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism) Granted the in-Germany resistance was small, fragmented, and disorganized but the notion that anyone not Jewish in Germany automatically supported the Nazis is bullshit. I don’t think that’s what she’s saying. I think she’s saying that the only reason Okrahoma is not a Nazi is that he’s Jewish. That is, if he didn’t have specific emotional ties to Jewish people, he would have thrown them under the bus, because of the kind of person he is. It’s a horrible thing to say, but not a statement about all non-Jewish Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/342 "2017-08-13T22:15:35Z")
Upon re-reading… yeah, I think you’re right, **Spice Weasel.** ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/343 "2017-08-13T22:16:40Z")
My maternal grandfather was in the Hitler Youth. _ONLY_ because it was mandatory. His family left Germany, as did his future wife’s family. My mother, daughter of two german immigrants, was born here. Again, don’t assume that all germans supported the Nazis, even if they were forced to be a part of its activities. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/344 "2017-08-13T22:24:16Z")
And along those lines, perhaps we shouldn’t play the game of “you would have been a Nazi.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/345 "2017-08-13T22:25:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t think that’s what she’s saying. I think she’s saying that the only reason Okrahoma is not a Nazi is that he’s Jewish. That is, if he didn’t have specific emotional ties to Jewish people, he would have thrown them under the bus, because of the kind of person he is. > > It’s a horrible thing to say, but not a statement about all non-Jewish Germans. Other than “she,” yup. And it’s a horrible thing to say, but Okrahoma appears to be horrible people. We shouldn’t forget how many ordinary folks joined the Nazi Party.; a lot of folks today would’ve joined if they’d been born to Aryan parents back then. When someone today spends so much energy disingenuously defending modern Nazis, it’s hardly an imaginative leap to figure out where they would’ve stood 80 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/346 "2017-08-13T22:29:17Z")
A lot of ordinary folks joined the Nazis in Germany because it was so much safer to do that than to protest the Nazis - it’s easier to say they shouldn’t have, but then, the people saying that now weren’t the ones who might have their loved ones taken away in the night or shot in front of them. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/347 "2017-08-13T22:31:28Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I totally defended their right to peaceably assemble, despicable as I find their ideology. > > I couldn’t agree more. _Don’t_ physically attack those who have a legal right to assemble. Like don’t throw full bottles at them. Don’t beat them with sticks. Don’t run them down with cars. This is such a fundamentally sensible observation I’m surprised it’s so difficult for people to work with. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/348 "2017-08-13T22:38:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > A lot of ordinary folks joined the Nazis in Germany because it was so much safer to do that than to protest the Nazis - it’s easier to say they shouldn’t have, but then, the people saying that now weren’t the ones who might have their loved ones taken away in the night or shot in front of them. Um, okay. That’s not really relevant to what I’m saying, though, and I encourage you to take a second look. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/349 "2017-08-13T22:44:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Now typically, I prefer the abstract and general over the specific. I think those sort of debates and questions are more fascinating. I am disappointed at the maturity level of many who choose to respond though. Simple fundamental concepts are not understood. Social media and media splintering is leading to hostile philosophical echo chambers. If it weren’t for the fact we have the number one economy and luxury goods are common I think we’d be heading for civil war 2. I agree about social media and echo chambers and all that, but I do have a problem grasping abstract arguments without specific examples. I’m not a person inclined to spew hate at groups of people for their ideology, but you’ve gotta draw the line somewhere. And I figure Nazis are a good place to draw that line. I can’t remember if you were the one decrying the lack of tolerance for the alt-right, but I don’t think anyone owes these people tolerance. We owe them the legal right to spew their disgusting bullshit. I agree on general principle that political rhetoric has gotten out of control, but I don’t think this is a good example. I don’t think we ought to be nice to white supremacists for the sake of mutual understanding. I loathe these people and all that they stand for. I don’t want them to die, but I wish they didn’t exist. Unless you are referring not to the alt-right but to the vilification of certain members of this board who are advocating free speech? Lol, this is why examples are useful. I agree plenty of posters are jumping the gun on assuming a vote for free speech is a vote for Nazis. I agree intellectual rigor is on the downswing in this country. I don’t think people are uncomfortable enough to resort to war, but I suspect this kind of terroristic-style violence and violence at protests are going to increase. As for ‘‘who started it,’’ I think it’s pretty clear that people on both sides came to that rally with the intent to instigate violence. It doesn’t mean there is a moral equivalency between the two groups, because one of those groups consisted entirely of people with a violent ideology, whether or not they behaved violently in that moment. [QUOTE=Broomstick] A lot of ordinary folks joined the Nazis in Germany because it was so much safer to do that than to protest the Nazis - it’s easier to say they shouldn’t have, but then, the people saying that now weren’t the ones who might have their loved ones taken away in the night or shot in front of them. [/QUOTE] I spend a lot of time learning about trauma psychology, and I don’t think people realize how incredibly common it is for people to commit acts they view as abhorrent out of sheer terror for themselves or loved ones. It’s easy to say what you would do in that situation, but the human brain in the midst of trauma is totally different than the rational brain we are so used to living with day to day. We basically revert to our most primitive brain functioning when so threatened. Even the way we perceive basic sensory experience and the passage of time is altered. Very, very few people ‘‘do the right thing’’ in those circumstances. And then they live with crippling PTSD and guilt over it for the rest of their lives. It’s tragic. In general I am really frustrated when people expect rational behavior from terrorized people. I see it all the time in how people expect rape victims to behave, how people think they will behave in the case of an active shooter, how people interpret the police shootings of unarmed minorities (which are absolutely to be condemned, but way more neurologically complicated than people realize.) Most people, under duress, completely fall apart as reasoning beings. We are as primitive as our brain stems. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/350 "2017-08-13T22:57:37Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > As for whether our President is a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit, David Duke’s response to Donald Trump’s lukewarm tweet today says it all: It says nothing whatsoever that indicates that the President is “a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit”. Nice try, but massive fail on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/351 "2017-08-13T23:02:18Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Racism and bigotry is not a political viewpoint. Umm… it is. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/352 "2017-08-13T23:05:54Z")
It aint. Not even close. It’s a copout for personal shortcomings and insecurities and would better be handled by a therapist. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/353 "2017-08-13T23:07:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It says nothing whatsoever that indicates that the President is “a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit”. Pretty much everything Trump has ever said or done proves that he is just such a thing. As is anybody who supports him in such cowardly actions. Or inactions, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/354 "2017-08-13T23:07:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Umm… it is. Actually, after years of looking at the issue, I think that those are really extreme forms of ignorance. Sure, politicians can and did use them for their ends. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/355 "2017-08-13T23:13:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So, of all the posts in this thread calling for murder and dishonestly attacking other posters, that one comment inspired you to respond? Yep. Because those calling for more violence are acting dumb and this is the Pit. You, however, pretended to post a serious comment on the subject while misusing purported facts. This is still the Straight Dope and facts do matter. (Cheer up. I am treating you as a serious poster while ignoring the several members of alt-right posting here on the grounds that they are incapable of actual thought.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/356 "2017-08-13T23:17:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It says nothing whatsoever that indicates that the President is “a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit”. Nice try, but massive fail on your part. Hey, hey, Clothahump! The dumbest dumbfuck I’ve ever had the misfortune of coming across! Yes, sorry dumbass, but the president is a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit. It’s the truth. I know that many Republicans, due to their cowardice and fear don’t realize this, or if they do they don’t admit it, but that aint my problem. You should probably put me on ignore, Asshole!!! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/357 "2017-08-13T23:40:40Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Funny, how I don’t see any clause in the first amendment for “racism and bigotry” speech. Can you point it out for me? Afraid I can’t. Can you point out where it protects hate speech and inciting violence? ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/358 "2017-08-13T23:47:07Z")
> **[Fighting words | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States)** > > The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law, is a limitation to freedom of speech as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. > In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine by a 9–0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire. It held that "insulting or 'fighting words', those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the p... > [@](#): > > There are certain well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or “fighting words” those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality. > — Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 1942 Also, “Specific definitions, freedoms, and limitations of fighting words vary by jurisdiction.” ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/359 "2017-08-14T00:07:33Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t think that’s what she’s saying. I think she’s saying that the only reason Okrahoma is not a Nazi is that he’s Jewish. And that’s an incredibly stupid thing to say. But then look at the source. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471/360 "2017-08-14T00:35:54Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And that’s an incredibly stupid thing to say. But then look at the source. Indeed. It is very rare that I say someone would have put on the swastika in 1930s Germany. This isn’t rhetoric as usual from me. Consider the source indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-racist-scum/793471.md?page=19)