# "Unite the Right" white nationalist march: Ugliness on full display. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444 "2017-08-12T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/441 "2017-08-14T02:48:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As one of the board’s more conservative posters, I’ll gladly mention that I condemn the scum who came to Charlottesville waving Confederate flags and talking up the KKK; I’ll gladly add that I _protested_ them, live and in person, in Charlottesville. I’m glad you weren’t injured. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/442 "2017-08-14T02:49:50Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As one of the board’s more conservative posters, I’ll gladly mention that I condemn the scum who came to Charlottesville waving Confederate flags and talking up the KKK; I’ll gladly add that I _protested_ them, live and in person, in Charlottesville. Good on you. Any stories to tell? If you saw any violence, did you see how it started? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/443 "2017-08-14T02:50:19Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As one of the board’s more conservative posters, I’ll gladly mention that I condemn the scum who came to Charlottesville waving Confederate flags and talking up the KKK; I’ll gladly add that I _protested_ them, live and in person, in Charlottesville. And kudos to you. But 1. I don’t think you violently attacked them, did you? 2. Would you approve of violently attacking them? As I said before - Nazis are evil scum. But even evil scum have the right to demonstrate without being violently attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/444 "2017-08-14T03:06:09Z")
I think people are being way too hard on the apologists in this thread. It’s perfectly reasonable for people with difficulty distinguishing between reality and what they see on the TV to believe that both sides do it, as recorded in [this documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulCw7RJ5eE8). ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/445 "2017-08-14T03:10:24Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > At this point, the thread should probably just be moved or closed. Other than the inadvertent Pit-style posts, most of the dialogue has moved well beyond MPSIMS-style reaction to breaking news. I keep tuning-in to see what’s up with Sailboat and his wife. I’m entertained by the tenacity and resolve that some folks -_on many sides_- have for splitting hairs in here. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/446 "2017-08-14T03:19:05Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > You know, I’ve spent alot of time on the webs looking at pics and reading articles about the Charlottesville mess and I have not seen any Nazi regalia. [These groups](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-other-symbols-used-far-right-groups-charlottesville)are not Nazis. They are American white nationalists. They may turn out to be just as awful (or worse) as the Nazis. But they are not the same. You didn’t see my post above with the Nazi marchers shouting “Hail Trump” and doing the Nazi salute as they marched, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/447 "2017-08-14T03:24:14Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’m not a trump supporter, but I think it’s _especially_ important for conservatives, reactionaries, people sympathetic to ethnic nationalism and immigration skeptics to condemn the Nazis, the Traditionalist Worker’s Party, Richard Spence, the Identity Europa, neo-confederates, and all the other people who helped enact this rally, because these people are in a sense _on their side_ (in the same sense that Mao was ‘on the side’ of more moderate communists, as much as they might despise him), and it’s especially necessary for all people to be clear about what the moral limits of their ideology are, how they know when a hard moral line has been crossed, and what they refuse to accept. I mean, it bears mentioning that the event was called Unite the _Right_. If there was some event called Unite the Left that consisted entirely of violently oriented extremists, I would be pretty damn quick to condemn that, to make it clear that it is not of me, in the very least for the sake of my own reputation. Actually, I do that quite regularly when observing bad behavior on the left. And I take a fair amount of heat for it from liberal apologists. But at least I can sleep at night.\* \*Not really. I have severe insomnia. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/448 "2017-08-14T03:25:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is pure, undiluted bullshit. Please tell me the characterization of your response to rape is also bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/449 "2017-08-14T03:36:29Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Please tell me the characterization of your response to rape is also bullshit. I’m confused. Could you clarify the question? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/450 "2017-08-14T03:47:18Z")
An American in Dresden, Germany today stepped outside of a restaurant and threw a Nazi salute. He was beaten by a German, who ran off, and the American was arrested for violating Germany’s anti-Nazi laws. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/451 "2017-08-14T03:49:48Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > At this point, the thread should probably just be moved or closed. Other than the inadvertent Pit-style posts, most of the dialogue has moved well beyond MPSIMS-style reaction to breaking news. I hope it can stay open until **Sailboat** has a chance to give us news, hopefully positive, about his wife. Like so many others I am anxious to hear how she is doing. (Though of course no one blames **Sailboat** for not updating us - he clearly has a lot more important things to deal with right now.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/452 "2017-08-14T03:50:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m confused. Could you clarify the question? **QuickSilver** implied that you are a rape apologist. Preventing sexual assault is as important to me as protecting freedom of speech is to you. I’ve never encountered you in a thread on that subject, so I am asking you to reassure me that you are not, in fact, a rape apologist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/453 "2017-08-14T04:20:17Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > And kudos to you. But > > 1. I don’t think you violently attacked them, did you? > > 2. Would you approve of violently attacking them? All apologies for a misleading comment; I protested in July, the _last_ time that white supremacists rallied in Charlottesville. And it was underwhelming; the folks with the Confederate flags and the KKK slogans didn’t start anything, and there was no real violence from the crowd I was in – just a ton of chanting, and the occasional piece of trash flung at the general vicinity of the Klan types. (Another protester offered me a bottle to throw at them, but I didn’t approve and so I passed.) After I’d been there a couple of hours, that one ended and the cops ordered us to disperse; that’s when I left, and grabbed a bite to eat at a Charlottesville restaurant. Some protesters _didn’t_ leave, and were tear-gassed while accomplishing nothing. This time, the cops gave the order to disperse shortly before it was even scheduled to begin, and so I – grabbed another bite to eat at a Charlottesville restaurant, since I saw no point in making a mistake I didn’t bother making last time. In retrospect, that was, uh, a mistake; I should’ve disregarded the police, because there was useful work to be done. Damned stupid of me. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/454 "2017-08-14T04:33:25Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > …it’s especially necessary for all people to be clear about what the moral limits of their ideology are, how they know when a hard moral line has been crossed, and what they refuse to accept. What’s so surprising to me is that getting in bed with Nazis wasn’t crossing a moral line with these people. I’m an Obama supporter, but if a bunch of Nazis marched in support of Obama, I’d be first in line to tell them to fuck off. And if Obama didn’t want to offend his base by condemning Nazis, I’d be done with him too. But Goddamn, Trump supporters seem determined to prove there’s no moral line they’re not willing to cross. I just find it disgusting. Do these people really like Trump so much they’re willing to become Nazi apologists? Guys, just say “Nazis murderers are evil scum and I don’t support them.” Is that really so difficult? Just lie if you have to, it would really help me sleep at night. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/455 "2017-08-14T05:36:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wondering if there will be a GOP contingent of counter-protesters at the next rally. Or better yet, Trump supporters waving banners like “NOT IN MY NAME” or “REAL TRUMP SUPPORTERS HATE RACISM.” > > When I start seeing stuff like that, that’s when I’ll stop lumping all Trump supporters in with the white nationalists. That would be so nice to see. Though I wouldn’t forgive those folks for voting for Trump, I would love to see Trump supporters making a splash by asserting their rejection of racism and anti-Semitism. As a broad generalization, I do consider Trump voters, for the most part, to indeed be a basket of deplorables. OTOH, I’m sure that there are non-racist and non-White Nationalists among them. I’m _not_ so sure that those particular Trumpsters have the courage to make a display of their anti-racism. Which is really too bad. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/456 "2017-08-14T06:10:51Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > **QuickSilver** implied that you are a rape apologist. Preventing sexual assault is as important to me as protecting freedom of speech is to you. I’ve never encountered you in a thread on that subject, so I am asking you to reassure me that you are not, in fact, a rape apologist. Of course I’m not. Quicksilver’s is only the latest in a long line of slanderous post about / directed at me in this thread. Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/457 "2017-08-14T06:15:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Guys, just say “Nazis murderers are evil scum and I don’t support them.” Is that really so difficult? Just lie if you have to, it would really help me sleep at night. Which Doper(s) do you feel has(/ve) failed to say something to that effect? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/458 "2017-08-14T06:19:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > In retrospect, that was, uh, a mistake; I should’ve disregarded the police, because there was useful work to be done. Damned stupid of me. What useful work do you think could have been accomplished? Do you wish you were at the scene of the vehicular homicide so that you could have shot the driver? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/459 "2017-08-14T06:33:27Z")
_[This thread is a long one. I have read the whole thing but I’m not up to the task of providing exact quotes of posts spread intermittently throughout this thread. So instead I offer only my impressions of some of the meanderings of this thread’s moods. I’m sorry.]_ With that caveat out of the way I would like to offer my opinion that some people have been very unfair to **Hurricane Ditka** in this thread. As I read it **HD** started out simply defending the rights of Nazis, White Nationalists, and everyone else, to free speech and peaceful freedom of assembly. There wasn’t a lot of argument because I think the majority opinion of the SDMB would agree with that. Later, it seems the attack on **HD** came down to whether he was an apologist for White Nationalism’s ethos and raison d’etre. But I only ever saw him-- not “apologizing” for them–but instead defending the First Amendment rights of racist scum. Which I would hope any American would likewise defend. Still later, there was some discussion of what message is being sent by people who demonstrate while employing Nazi imagery, slogans, and the like. To me, right off the bat, they are communicating: “I am a fucked-up hater.” But some posters here said that a person carrying a Nazi flag can be presumed to be in favor of Genocide and other horrible crimes. I believe **HD** (rightfully, IMO) suggested that it is leaping to conclusions to assume that a Nazi flag bearer must necessarily and always personally desire Genocide. Now it’s true–one would have to be a pitiful idiot to go out in public marching around with Nazi emblems. And maybe that idiot believes that all Jews should be killed or maybe he just believes that people of different races shouldn’t inter-marry (loathsome, but not Genocide). _ **IF** _ one goes out in public bearing Nazi imagery you should expect a great deal of angry pushback. Also, you should expect that people will in general assign certain motives to your behavior… even if some of them are wrong. In short, you are deliberately showing yourself to be an asshole of the scummiest kind (or much worse) and you do this at your own peril. But, that doesn’t mean you necessarily want to kill entire groups of people or even one _single_ person–even as you send the message that you admire people who _did_ exterminate millions. And that is all kinds of wrong. Sorry… this is long and rambling. I don’t mean to put any words in **Hurricane Ditka** ’s mouth, I’m just saying that IMO, he caught too much grief for simply trying to make a point of logic. It’s probably not that great of an idea to parse logic in such a emotional debate but, nonetheless… logic is logic. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/460 "2017-08-14T06:52:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Which Doper(s) do you feel has(/ve) failed to say something to that effect? Well…how about you link to your strongest, harshest language condemnation of Nazis that you’ve posted in this thread. I bet it’s a scorcher. None of that weak sauce like “I don’t like Nazis”. I bet you really let the Nazis have it. Go ahead and link me, don’t worry about my feelings, I can take it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444.md?page=24)