# "Unite the Right" white nationalist march: Ugliness on full display. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444 "2017-08-12T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/521 "2017-08-14T21:22:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I believe that an even-remotely genuine attempt at understanding the post would recognize that “despicable people” in my post as a reference to the same “people chanting for the murder of Jews and non-whites” in Larry’s post, but neither he nor I explicitly specified them as “the Nazis”, so YMMV. Clearly you believe incorrectly. Generally I believe that if someone tries hard to say something, they’ll generally be able to say it. For example, if I wanted to say “Nazis are despicable” I would say “Nazis are despicable.” Easy. Likewise if someone says “there are despicable people in the world…people in Virginia”, then I assume they’re not referring to Nazis, on account of if they wanted to discuss Nazis they would have used the word.(maybe spelling was a concern?). Those people were a bunch of things: They were Nazis, they were Trump supporters, they were white… I can think of at maybe two things in that description that would qualify as despicable. Now you want to come back and claim that a post that didn’t mention Nazis was about Nazis. OK, but a) no it wasn’t and b) I agree with you that Trump supporters are despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/522 "2017-08-14T21:23:52Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > For, what it’s worth, after our conversation, I’m satisfied that HD is not a Nazi sympathizer. He’s just really pedantic. I still maintain that no skinhead waving the Nazi flag gets the benefit of a doubt for what that means. > > After some discussion in the Pit with octopus, it looks like part of the problem is that some were splitting hairs because they believed others were saying, “carrying the flag is endorsing genocide and therefore should be banned as an incitement to violence.” Excessive pedanticism when applied \*only to one viewpoint \*is just another way to make excuses or diminish responsibility for that side. They are both heavily invested in trying to make excuses and draw false equivalencies (Blood and Soil doesn’t literally mean death to others, What about those Marxists???). They may not support Nazis or white supremacists (and I don’t think they do) but they have no problem carrying water for them and sure as hell have done their best to avoid assigning any blame or consequences to them. A true pedantic would insist on that viewpoint for all sides but their consistency is only one side. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/523 "2017-08-14T21:36:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > … and b) I agree with you that Trump supporters are despicable. Did I say that somewhere? Or is this more false attribution? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/524 "2017-08-14T21:51:55Z")
> [@Amara\_1](#): > > Excessive pedanticism when applied \*only to one viewpoint \*is just another way to make excuses or diminish responsibility for that side. They are both heavily invested in trying to make excuses and draw false equivalencies (Blood and Soil doesn’t literally mean death to others, What about those Marxists???). They may not support Nazis or white supremacists (and I don’t think they do) but they have no problem carrying water for them and sure as hell have done their best to avoid assigning any blame or consequences to them. > > A true pedantic would insist on that viewpoint for all sides but their consistency is only one side. The main problem I see (and HD just did it again) is that compulsive need to keep ripping things out of context. I’m sure we can all universally agree that a WW2 re-enactor or performance artist is not necessarily advocating genocide. Duh. We’re talking about the subject of this thread, an alt-right protest full of white supremacists. When we say, “the don’t get the benefit of the doubt” we are talking about the motives of these people in Charlottesville, or white supremacist events like it. I would think that would be obvious given the thread’s subject but I wanted to say it explicitly just in case. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/525 "2017-08-14T21:54:53Z")
So that’s where we are in America today? People sig heiling to the skies and waving nazi flags don’t want to be called nazis?? GTFO. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/526 "2017-08-14T21:57:36Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Wouldn’t it be tragic if Alex Jones were beaten to death by neo-Nazis for calling them Jews? The man managed to simultaneously offend Nazis and Jews with that piece of nonsense. Is this a first? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/527 "2017-08-14T22:05:38Z")
He better be careful with the Nazis or he’s gonna lose his base. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/528 "2017-08-14T22:06:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I will accept your explanation on face value with respect to the gun issue. > > I have more trouble with the pedantics regarding neo-nazis and whether or not they were literally or figuratively chanting threats against jews and people of colour. Here’s why - I’m jewish and not only were many family members of my grandparents’ generation, including one grandparent, killed by Nazis, I personally experienced anti semitism growing up. So I don’t need to wait to literally hear anti-semitic chants when I see neo-nazis gathered in large numbers, per Charlottesville. I can conclude with near absolute certainty they’re not gathered to offer a public retraction of their philosophy. I’ve yet to be proven wrong. > > So you say you’re not a neo-nazi apologist and that may be as you say. But then why raise that specific question at all? Are chanting neo-nazis demonstrably different from non-chanting neo-nazis? The “pedantics regarding neo-nazis and whether or not they were literally or figuratively chanting threats against jews and people of colour” were mostly because I thought we were, at the time in a “breaking news” thread and I wanted the information to be as accurate as possible. I’ll note here that the “breaking news” thread rule of “[no political jabs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=778315)” sure AS FUCK has not been adhered to in this thread, so it’s quite probable that I was mistaken about the nature of the thread. In hindsight, it was probably a bad place to try and make that point, and further points about the possible nuanced meanings of a Nazi flag display were probably not appropriate for the time and venue. I generally hope that Dopers can overcome their emotions and respond logically, but I’ve realized that’s not always the case. Probably less so in any thread regarding Nazis, and even less so when people have been physically harmed by a Nazi, and particularly so when one of those injured is married to one of our own Dopers. In the future I’ll try to limit my pedantry to times and places a little less swamped with emotion. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/529 "2017-08-14T22:34:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The main problem I see (and HD just did it again) is that compulsive need to keep ripping things out of context. I’m sure we can all universally agree that a WW2 re-enactor or performance artist is not necessarily advocating genocide. Duh. We’re talking about the subject of this thread, an alt-right protest full of white supremacists. When we say, “the don’t get the benefit of the doubt” we are talking about the motives of these people in Charlottesville, or white supremacist events like it. I would think that would be obvious given the thread’s subject but I wanted to say it explicitly just in case. > > Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Yes, and it also done _to_ me again recently. I thought my comment about “despicable people” was understood in the context of “these people in Charlottesville” too, but [it clearly was not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20413076#post20413076). I’ll tell you what: for the rest of this thread I’ll do my best to avoid pedantics and address the spirit of the arguments, and try to confine my commentary to the Nazis that marched in Charlottesville (who, by the way, just so we’re all clear, I think are evil assholes, regardless of whether they explicitly chanted “Death to the Jews” or not). Will that help ease some of the tension? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/530 "2017-08-14T22:39:41Z")
Whether or not anyone chanted the words “death to Jews”, or publicly sig-heiled proudly or waved a nazi flag, it’s all the same shit. And it’s no political belief. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/531 "2017-08-14T22:46:00Z")
For those who haven’t seen it, about one of Michigan’s ex-congressman John Dingell who is 91 and has more credibility than most: “I signed up to fight Nazis 73 years ago and I’ll do it again if I have to” > **[John Dingell vows to fight Nazis again after Va. violence](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/08/14/dingell-to-fight-nazis-after-charlottesville-violence/564191001/)** > > He also blasts Trump for silence on Charlottesville incident ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/532 "2017-08-14T23:06:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, and it also done _to_ me again recently. I thought my comment about “despicable people” was understood in the context of “these people in Charlottesville” too, but [it clearly was not](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20413076#post20413076). > > I’ll tell you what: for the rest of this thread I’ll do my best to avoid pedantics and address the spirit of the arguments, and try to confine my commentary to the Nazis that marched in Charlottesville (who, by the way, just so we’re all clear, I think are evil assholes, regardless of whether they explicitly chanted “Death to the Jews” or not). Will that help ease some of the tension? I think it’s inevitable there would be an incredible amount of tension around this issue and for the most part I think we’ve all done pretty well. Maybe some reactions have been less charitable than necessary but I’ve seen a lot of us fighting to work through the confusion and get at what the other person is really trying to say _despite_ heightened emotions. One reason I continue to be proud of my membership here. FWIW I never questioned for a second whether you think Nazis are bad. Nor did my earlier reaction have anything to do with you asking for clarification of the facts. I was just peeved you saw a difference between chanting ‘‘death to Jews’’ and waving a Nazi flag. That read to me like a minimization of what those fucks were doing at that rally. There is so much talking at cross-purposes happening with this event. I tried to break it down [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20411107&postcount=367) I’d say you and **octopus** are both #2 and I confused you with #3. [This is a real #3.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20412428&postcount=458) And a lot of people have confused me with #4. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/533 "2017-08-14T23:34:00Z")
The good news is that the American people in general understand that Nazis are the bad guys: per Gallup, Trump’s approval rating today fell to an all-time low of 34% and his disapproval rating rose to an all-time high of 61%. I guess while Trump was trying to decide whether or not to condemn Nazis (tough decision!), his supporters went ahead and made up their own minds. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/534 "2017-08-14T23:43:33Z")
Oh, this will be…interesting: [http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/texas-white-nationalist-protest-trnd/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/texas-white-nationalist-protest-trnd/index.html) > [@](#): > > White nationalists, neo-Nazis and other extremist groups plan to hold a “white lives matter” rally at Texas A&M on _ **September 11** _. Richard Spencer, the white supremacist who helped found the so-called alt-right movement, will speak at the event, according to the Battalion, Texas A&M’s student newspaper. I bolded the date, because it seems vaguely important. (/sardonic) And in Texas, no less. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/535 "2017-08-14T23:45:54Z")
What could go wrong? The campus is now open-carry, right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/536 "2017-08-14T23:47:07Z")
[Update: It’s cancelled.](http://reverepress.com/news/texas-cancels-white-lives-matter-rally/) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/537 "2017-08-14T23:48:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The good news is that the American people in general understand that Nazis are the bad guys: per Gallup, Trump’s approval rating today fell to an all-time low of 34% and his disapproval rating rose to an all-time high of 61%. I guess while Trump was trying to decide whether or not to condemn Nazis (tough decision!), his supporters went ahead and made up their own minds. The poll was taken last week and didn’t include responses after the Charlottesville incident. I’m guessing it drops even more once that’s factored in. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/538 "2017-08-14T23:50:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ll tell you what: for the rest of this thread I’ll do my best to avoid pedantics and address the spirit of the arguments, and try to confine my commentary to the Nazis that marched in Charlottesville (who, by the way, just so we’re all clear, I think are evil assholes, regardless of whether they explicitly chanted “Death to the Jews” or not). Will that help ease some of the tension? It certainly goes a long way in helping clarify your position. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/539 "2017-08-15T00:30:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The poll was taken last week and didn’t include responses after the Charlottesville incident. I’m guessing it drops even more once that’s factored in. Wow, interesting. So he managed to get down to 34% on just general incompetence, even before the Nazi thing. I imagine he’s going to have an interesting polling week ahead of him, and we’ll find out what percentage of Americans are down with the Nazis. I suspect it’s not a large percentage. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444/540 "2017-08-15T00:39:26Z")
Well, last week was when he was saying “Go ahead, nuke Guam. I dares ya. I double-dog dares ya!” So, I’m not surprised his ratings dropped last week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unite-the-right-white-nationalist-march-ugliness-on-full-display/793444.md?page=28)