# United airlines brutally removes passenger after overbooking flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 10, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171 "2017-04-10T14:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/361 "2017-04-11T09:42:11Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > This is a huge minefield with no apparent benefits for the airline. Interviewing passengers until one is deemed sufficiently worthless enough to be bumped sounds like something that will take a long time and piss a lot of people off. > > I mean, can you imagine what would happen the first time they decided that, say, a cop had the lowest priority occupation on the flight? Talk about social media outrage. Not to mention - what if they pass over a white guy but remove a Hispanic guy, or pass over a man but remove a woman - or remove a Muslim, or gay/lesbian passenger, or… You know some people \*will \*see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/362 "2017-04-11T09:58:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Why shouldn’t it happen if a guy resists the cops? What’s your alternate reality for resisting arrest that doesn’t involve use of force? Maybe you should ask his boss that question. In his reality, the officer who used excessive force wasn’t using standard procedures and [has been suspended](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/10/travel/passenger-removed-united-flight-trnd/index.html). > [@](#): > > The Chicago Department of Aviation said in a statement that the incident “was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department.” > > That officer has been placed on leave effective today pending a review of the situation, the statement added. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/363 "2017-04-11T11:23:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Second of all, passengers would be taking the offer long before it reaches, even, say, $2,000.l. Once it becomes known that there is no upper limit, why would they? “Hey-I heard about this guy that got $10,000 once. Why should I fold at $2000?” Every push will be the new norm. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/364 "2017-04-11T11:40:06Z")
There is a point many may be missing. The mountain of fine print, which you never even see, describes the contract between you and the airline as an absolutely unilateral non-negotiated agreement that you give the airline the money, shut up, and they can do whatever they want. Case in point. My sissier and I were in the departure lounge at JFK waiting for a flight to Milwaukee. The airline announced that the flight had been cancelled, and all passengers have been rescheduled for the next flight, two hours later. Apparently, only half a plane-load on each flight, so they just doubled up. Now, if I had gone a minute earlier to the airline desk and asked to be switched to the later flight, they would have charged me a $200 rebooking fee. The airline can do whatever they want, but the passenger, for doing exactly the same thing, can be charged an exorbitant fine according to an unregulated fee schedule. It’s in the “contract”. And they have armed thugs standing by to enforce their “rights”. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/365 "2017-04-11T11:41:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You have to realize you’re dealing with people who seem to think that _the police should never ever use physical force under any circumstances ever_. If the person refuses to comply after being politely asked to do so, they ought to have no other recourse than to _ask him politely again_. And if his response is to pull a gun and shoot them in the head; well, they’re cops, they knew that was part of the job when they took it, we shouldn’t shed any tears over it. On an airplane? :dubious: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/366 "2017-04-11T12:10:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Once it becomes known that there is no upper limit, why would they? “Hey-I heard about this guy that got $10,000 once. Why should I fold at $2000?” Every push will be the new norm. Because the passengers will be competing, in a sense, with each other, to get that money. It’s an auction – some passenger may think he’ll wait for $10K and get a nice payout, but then the guy next to him thinks “I’ll say yes at $9K to undercut that guy”, and so on – a perfect market solution to a problem. It will probably be a lot lower than $2K, most of the time, and it will never require violence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/367 "2017-04-11T12:13:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > NONE. Delta would be using computer models to book flights for maximum efficiency just as their competitors do. This is how airlines are able to offer fares so cheaply. Your premise is emotional waffle. > > The requirement for law enforcement was based on the passenger’s actions and not the airlines. The airlines set their policies knowing they can rely on law enforcement to backstop their business inefficiencies. If law enforcement can always use physical force to solve these problems, airlines have less incentive to be efficient and have good practices for booking – and they have less incentive to offer reasonable compensation to passengers who are bumped. Take away the law enforcement backstop, and suddenly the airlines actually might have to _be better at booking_, and _offer better customer service_. This problem was the airline’s making – they overbooked, and then boarded the plane. Very, very dumb business practices. They shouldn’t be able to rely on law enforcement violence, IMO, to save them money. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/368 "2017-04-11T12:22:22Z")
I don’t know that there has been an experiment to prove that a plane full of strangers would collude so as to allow a couple of them to reap outlandish rewards. I’m confident that at some point, someone will bite. Let’s not ignore the airlines’ relationships and bargaining position in travel/hospitality. I presume they have deals with hotel chains to house their staff. They could offer all kinds of deals, for which their outlay would be minimal. “Want to extend your stay in Chicago and no need to rush back home? How about a 2 night stay in a downtown suite, with complimentary theater tickets and dining room vouchers!” Moreover, read in today’s paper that the employees needed to be in KY **FOR THE NEXT DAY!** Making that rental limo alternative look better and better. Also, the paper says, “This is the second incident in recent weeks since leggings-gate.” Whatever any individual feels about any aspect of this incident, next time, the news will be able to trumpet, “This is the THIRD…” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/369 "2017-04-11T12:24:18Z")
Has any explanation been given as to why United **NEEDED** to get four employees on an overbooked flight? It seems that they might have logistic problems if they need to ferry their staff around on busy routes. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/370 "2017-04-11T12:25:02Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Has any explanation been given as to why United **NEEDED** to get four employees on an overbooked flight? It seems that they might have logistic problems if they need to ferry their staff around on busy routes. I haven’t heard an explanation for this particular situation, but sometimes shit happens. There could have been four crew members in Louisville who had timed out due to delays (meaning they’d flown too many hours that day). (And it would be Republic that needed them there, not United. This wasn’t technically a United flight. Which will be interesting when people start boycotting United flights, all to get on other airlines whose flights might very well be provided by…Republic.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/371 "2017-04-11T12:27:36Z")
If **Dinsdale** ’s paper is correct, then the employees didn’t even need to be in KY until the next day, thus underscoring the incredible stupidity (and very, very bad business practices) of the airline. They could have put them on a bus, rented a van… so many options they failed to utilize. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/372 "2017-04-11T12:30:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What is so bad about letting the market work? Generally, people who talk about the magic of the free market only want that magic to work for rich people, business owners, and large corporations. If the magic of the free market helps raise worker wages or results in money for a private individual, then they’re bitterly opposed to it and want the full force of the government brought to bear to avoid having to face the reality of the market. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/373 "2017-04-11T12:31:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They could have put them on a bus, rented a van… so many options they failed to utilize. I’m not totally sure here, but I believe employees in such a situation typically have a contractual right to travel by air. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/374 "2017-04-11T12:35:49Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Has any explanation been given as to why United **NEEDED** to get four employees on an overbooked flight? It seems that they might have logistic problems if they need to ferry their staff around on busy routes. as I pointed out before, they could have chartered a light plane to fly four employees to Louisville, and gotten them there even before the scheduled flight, a lot cheaper than paying passengers to be bumped. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/375 "2017-04-11T12:36:49Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What is so bad about letting the market work? Because it costs the airline too much. Your happiness as a customer has a value to them, but it’s a limited value. The airline, just like _any_ other publicly traded business, has a legal obligation to maximize profit for its shareholders; customer satisfaction is, at best, a second priority. > [@mhendo](#): > > The airlines use market principles to their advantage when they decide to oversell their flights, and they are supported in this by the federal government. Why not force them to abide by the same market principles when their overselling results in having to kick people off the flight? Call or write your elected representatives - and for the privilege of never being involuntarily bumped, be prepared to pay more for standard airfare in the future. > [@iiandyiii](#): > > The airlines set their policies knowing they can rely on law enforcement to backstop their business inefficiencies. Are you under the impression that nobody saw the first nine times you wrote this? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/376 "2017-04-11T12:38:46Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I understand that doctors help people in a variety of ways, but unless he’s actually performing life-saving emergency surgery as soon as he steps off the flight, his life and his priorities are no more important than anyone else’s. Plenty of doctors see patients for all sorts of reasons. If I schedule a check-up with my primary care physician, and they have to cancel the appointment, it’s no more or less inconvenient for me than if my mechanic cancels my oil change appointment. News accounts say the doc told the airline people that he had to see patients who were in the hospital, which is a bit more pressing than a check-up in the office. On the one hand, it seems likely he could have arranged coverage in his absence (many hospitals have in-house docs (hospitalists) whose job it is to tend to inpatients). On the other hand the excuse he gave for why he should be exempted from bumping sounds reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/377 "2017-04-11T12:46:55Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Are you under the impression that nobody saw the first nine times you wrote this? Very sorry if I hurt your feelings or otherwise offended you. Certainly not my intention. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/378 "2017-04-11T12:47:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You think a business as gigantic as United doesn’t have insurance that covers transporting its employees to their reporting location? I was talking about the passengers, not the employees. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/379 "2017-04-11T12:50:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to mention - what if they pass over a white guy but remove a Hispanic guy, or pass over a man but remove a woman - or remove a Muslim, or gay/lesbian passenger, or… > > You know some people \*will \*see it that way. Indeed: [Was that doctor dragged off the United Airlines flight because he was Asian? Many in China think so](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/04/11/was-that-doctor-dragged-off-the-united-airlines-flight-because-he-was-asian-many-in-china-think-so/?utm_term=.5326c66916b2). (_Washington Post_) In the end, perceptions will conclusively beat contracts, protocols, and ticket fine-print. Industry changes will happen, and the man who was dragged off the flight will be well compensated for this incident. _See also_: The alligator attack at Disney that killed a child last year. Posted signage, verbal warnings, etc. aren’t sufficient cover when public opinion gets to skewering a company. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/380 "2017-04-11T12:57:16Z")
Probably doesn’t mean anything long-term, but for those that watch stocks: [United Airlines Tumbles After Social-Media Storm Goes Global](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-11/united-airlines-tumbles-as-social-media-storm-spreads-worldwide) (Bloomberg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=20)