# United airlines brutally removes passenger after overbooking flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 10, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171 "2017-04-10T14:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/641 "2017-04-11T20:56:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A leading attorney in the field has said proper protocol wasnt followed. The DOT is investigating it. Munoz has all but admitted what they did wasnt proper. > > So a bunch of people who \*dont \*know the law or the procedures are saying what United did was proper. Experts disagree. Even United seems to disagree. United has to do what is good for PR, whether it is good for the airlines or the crews involved or not. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/642 "2017-04-11T20:57:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A leading attorney in the field has said proper protocol wasnt followed. The DOT is investigating it. Munoz has all but admitted what they did wasnt proper. From what I’m gathering (and should be able to link to later): The specific protocol that wasn’t followed is that a passenger asked to involuntarily deplane must be given the opportunity to review a written copy of the contract of carriage on the spot. I believe (don’t know) that a member of the flight crew is also obliged to go through the contract’s relevant items with the passenger. The fact that there’s some similar information on the back of the ticket does not matter. … Munoz is speaking out of both sides of his mouth, but I guess he has to. [Here’s what he wrote to United employees earlier](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-united-ceo-oscar-munoz-letter-20170410-story.html). ---
**Author:** ![FavreCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a698b9/32.png) [@FavreCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FavreCo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/643 "2017-04-11T20:58:45Z")
I would have taken the deal after they kicked this clown’s ass. My comment to the press: ‘That was awesome how they kicked his ass and then paid me to watch it.’ ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/644 "2017-04-11T21:01:09Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > There are a lot of ethnic Chinese that are from Vietnam. I’m unaware if that applies here. The guy’s surname is Dao (陶) which is a fairly common Chinese as well as Vietnamese surname (that character, though pronunciation and Latin transliteration would vary). If he said he was ‘Chinese’ (as reported), though from Vietnam, that would itself seem to answer the question if reported correctly: an ethnic Chinese person from Vietnam. They make up a higher % of Vietnamese Americans than they do in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/645 "2017-04-11T21:01:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That seems unclear. It may be that they did, but several passengers may have taken the deal and not even boarded in the first place. The reason some are saying that the flight was not overbooked is because the four crew members arrived very late to the plane. After the plane was fully boarded, in fact – and the gate agent either did not know the crew members were coming, or did not account for the crew members’ impending arrival. The issue seems to be less overbooking, and more about what rights passengers have versus the airline’s plans to move their staff. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/646 "2017-04-11T21:02:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Your question was bad. No, it wasn’t. Once there’s an unruly passenger, the airline has to deal with _that_ situation, not X,Y, or Z that “should” have happened before. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/647 "2017-04-11T21:04:25Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > But he should have left after the first air marshal advised him to leave. They were airport cops, not air marshals. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/648 "2017-04-11T21:04:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many times, and how high a price? At what point does the captain get to say “We’ve wasted enough time, and we’re about to lose our spot in line. Negotiations is over-get four of them off this plane, _now!_”? ‘Negotiations’ were over when United accepted his credit card. If they had no intention of letting him take the flight, they should not have accepted his money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/649 "2017-04-11T21:05:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, it wasn’t. > > Once there’s an unruly passenger, the airline has to deal with _that_ situation, not X,Y, or Z that “should” have happened before. What would you do if you were sitting on an airplane and a stranger put his hands on you roughly? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/650 "2017-04-11T21:07:36Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, it wasn’t. > > Once there’s an unruly passenger, the airline has to deal with _that_ situation, not X,Y, or Z that “should” have happened before. If they caused the passenger to become unruly by not following proper procedures then it’s their fault, not that passengers. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/651 "2017-04-11T21:09:40Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, it wasn’t. > > Once there’s an unruly passenger, the airline has to deal with _that_ situation, not X,Y, or Z that “should” have happened before. So, you would be fine if airlines intentionally upset passengers to the point of being unruly, then dealing with _that_ situation? You really don’t get that the best time to de-escalate a situation is _before_ it gets to imposing physical force? We are discussing ways of preventing this sort of thing from happening in the future. You are simply repeating, over and over and over and over again that once the airline had chosen to use physical force (and ignore their own policies and procedures in the process), that everything is just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/652 "2017-04-11T21:12:36Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Since you were concerned that people are armchair quarterbacking and not understanding the situation – Will you concede that they did not overbook the flight? Since it is typical policy for traveling crew to use jump seats when at all possible, so that paying customers can have access to regular seats, but there was an unforeseen influx of crew that needed to travel and not enough jump seats available, I’m actually not sure if I’m willing to make that concession. Is your proposed solution always leaving set an amount of regular seats empty, regardless of whether an emergency arises where crew needs to use them? For the purpose of this question, I’m treating “overbooked” as only including paying customers, not employees on the clock. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/653 "2017-04-11T21:12:57Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > From what I’m gathering (and should be able to link to later): > > The specific protocol that wasn’t followed is that a passenger asked to involuntarily deplane must be given the opportunity to review a written copy of the contract of carriage on the spot. I believe (don’t know) that a member of the flight crew is also obliged to go through the contract’s relevant items with the passenger. The fact that there’s some similar information on the back of the ticket does not matter. Is there any evidence that this wasn’t done the several times talked to him? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/654 "2017-04-11T21:14:05Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Doesn’t that apply to the airline as well? No, because unlike the passenger, the airline actually owns (or leases and so has control of) the airplane, so if they decide they want you off, then for the time being you have to leave; if there are issues, you settle it later. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/655 "2017-04-11T21:14:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any evidence that this wasn’t done the several times talked to him? I believe that the airline admitted that this procedure was not followed. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/656 "2017-04-11T21:15:17Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Nope. They had agreed to sell him a seat They sold him a license to the seat that was stated up front would be revocable at the discretion of the airline. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/657 "2017-04-11T21:15:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any evidence that his wasn’t done the several times talked to him? Nope – just anecdotes. And I believe 'em. YMMV. It’ll all come out in the wash, since there’s an investigation starting up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/658 "2017-04-11T21:15:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you would be fine if airlines intentionally upset passengers to the point of being unruly, then dealing with _that_ situation? WTF?? Where was this even implied? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/659 "2017-04-11T21:17:18Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > They sold him a license to the seat that was stated up front would be revocable at the discretion of the airline. Within the limits of DOT regulations and their contract. Whether or not they followed DOT regs is still under investigation and a industry expert saz they violated their contract. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/660 "2017-04-11T21:18:03Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Nope – just anecdotes. And I believe 'em. YMMV. And my standards of evidence seem to be higher. Come’s from being a skeptic, along with a lifetime of listening to rumors that turn out to have no basis in fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=34)