# United airlines brutally removes passenger after overbooking flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 10, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171 "2017-04-10T14:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/661 "2017-04-11T21:18:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Within the limits of DOT regulations and their contract. Whether or not they followed DOT regs is still under investigation and a industry expert saz they violated their contract. Again–that’s something that gets settled in court. You don’t get to say, in the moment, “Well, I’m right and you’re wrong so I’m not leaving.” That’s not how it works. When they tell you to leave, you leave, and later on if a court decides that they were wrong to tell you to leave you’re awarded damages. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/662 "2017-04-11T21:19:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And my standards of evidence seem to be higher. Come’s from being a skeptic, along with a lifetime of listening to rumors that turn out to have no basis in fact. Like rumors that the passenger was playing possum? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/663 "2017-04-11T21:19:30Z")
We now have an explanation as to why United decided to apologize; it is afraid of losing market share in China: > [@](#): > > China’s social media was ablaze with outrage Tuesday over United Airlines’ forced removal of a passenger identified in news reports as ethnically Chinese. The incident Sunday night, which was captured by mobile phone cameras, was the No. 1 trending topic on China’s Twitter -like microblogging service, Weibo. The topic drew more than 160 million views and about 100,000 comments by early Tuesday evening… > > The United incident occurred on a jet departing from Chicago. Many of the comments on Chinese social media focused on alleged discrimination by United, in response to reports by fellow passengers that the man was a doctor who claimed he was selected for removal because of his race. “This is inherent arrogance,” said Song Hongbing, a popular Chinese author, on his verified Weibo account. “I don’t think a 69-year-old white doctor would be treated like this.” Others talked about boycotting the airline or canceling their United Airlines credit cards… > > United has operated in China for more than 30 years and has more nonstop routes to and from the mainland than American Airlines . or Delta. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-airlines-kicks-off-passenger-ticks-off-china-1491910982](https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-airlines-kicks-off-passenger-ticks-off-china-1491910982) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/664 "2017-04-11T21:20:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Within the limits of DOT regulations and their contract. Whether or not they followed DOT regs is still under investigation and a industry expert saz they violated their contract. Keep on rolling him out, and I will keep on pointing out that your expert of choice is an attorney for airline plaintiffs who is protecting his profession. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/665 "2017-04-11T21:23:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > WTF?? Where was this even implied? D’aconia said that what led up to the passenger being “unruly” didn’t matter, it only mattered that the passenger was unruly, and that that was the situation that needed to be dealt with. So, my question to him is that if a passenger is intentionally upset (whether because someone on the crew dislikes him personally, decided to take a bad day out on him, or any other reason) that the event that led up to the passenger being unruly don’t matter, only the fact that at this time, the passenger is unruly? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/666 "2017-04-11T21:24:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Like rumors that the passenger was playing possum? I never stated as fact that he was. It surprised me that he recovered pretty fucking fast to be able to avoid the police and run back onto the plane. That fact that you find this not at all unusual does _not_ surprise me, however. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/667 "2017-04-11T21:26:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You are simply repeating, over and over and over and over again that once the airline had chosen to use physical force (and ignore their own policies and procedures in the process), that everything is just fine. The airline did NOT choose to use physical force; in fact, the so-called violence was by the police. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/668 "2017-04-11T21:30:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I never stated as fact that he was. It surprised me that he recovered pretty fucking fast to be able to avoid the police and run back onto the plane. That fact that you find this not at all unusual does _not_ surprise me, however. How do you know how fast it was? What is “normal” for a terrified person after (possibly) being temporarily knocked out? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/669 "2017-04-11T21:30:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And my standards of evidence seem to be higher. Come’s from being a skeptic, along with a lifetime of listening to rumors that turn out to have no basis in fact. Hardly. We have cites, you are relying simply on your opinion. Unless you think your opinion is evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/670 "2017-04-11T21:32:51Z")
There are faults on both sides of this case. Was the doctor an asshole? Probably. Was United within their rights to have the passenger removed from the aircraft? Probably. Did they act appropriately in this case? No, because the DOT requires them to offer cash or a check as compensation, not a voucher. And the police officers clearly acted inappropriately. But it is United’s name being dragged through the muck and they should have known better. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Keep on rolling him out, and I will keep on pointing out that your expert of choice is an attorney for airline plaintiffs who is protecting his profession. “Protecting his profession” from what? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/671 "2017-04-11T21:34:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How do you know how fast it was? What is “normal” for a terrified person after (possibly) being temporarily knocked out? Yeah, that kind of insinuating speculation is basically paper-towel-tube territory. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/672 "2017-04-11T21:35:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hardly. We have cites, you are relying simply on your opinion. Unless you think your opinion is evidence? No…but I might have an opinion or two about the quality of your cites and your interpretations therein. if you don’t mind of course giving me the same consideration you give to those that share your point of view, of course. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/673 "2017-04-11T21:35:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Keep on rolling him out, and I will keep on pointing out that your expert of choice is an attorney for airline plaintiffs who is protecting his profession. I will bet Bricker will agree that a lawyer who is not representing a side should be considered neutral. Here are his bona fides: James P. Kreindler joined Kreindler & Kreindler LLP in 1983 and became a partner in 1987. He is a magna cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, 1977. He received his J.D. degree from Columbia University in 1980, where he was a Harlan Fiske Stone scholar. He began his career as an Assistant District Attorney in the Kings County (Brooklyn) District Attorneys’ Office. A specialist in aviation accident and terrorist litigation Mr. Kreindler is a frequent lecturer on Aviation Accident Litigation and Terrorism Litigation throughout North and South America and Europe. He is the only Plaintiffs’ attorney, other than Lee Kreindler, asked to lecture at International Airline Transportation Association meetings. Mr. Kreindler is a fellow of the International Academy of Trial Lawyers. He also has been recently selected by Lawdragon for their latest 500 Leading Litigators in America’s list. Recipient of the 2009 Public Justice Lawyer of the Year Award. Bar Admissions New York, 1981 U.S. District Court Eastern District of New York, 1981 U.S. District Court Southern District of New York, 1981 U.S. Federal Courts, 1981 U.S. Court of Appeals 2nd Circuit, 1981 U.S. Court of Appeals 5th Circuit, 1985 U.S. Supreme Court, 1983 U.S. Court of Appeals 9th Circuit Education Columbia Law School, New York, New York J.D. - 1980 Honors: Harlan Fiske Stone Scholar Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire B.A. (Magna Cum Laude) - 1977 Honors and Awards Martindale-Hubbell AC Rating 5 out of 5 Listed in Ney York Best Lawyer New York SuperLawyer Professional Associations and Memberships American Bar Association, Member, Committee on Aviation Litigation American Association for Justice, Member New York State Trial Lawyers Association, Member, Board of Directors New York County Lawyers Association, Member, Subcommittee on Aviation Past Employment Positions Kings county District Attorney, A.D.A., 1980 - 1983 Fraternities/Sororities Kappa Kappa Kappa ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/674 "2017-04-11T21:36:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Protecting his profession” from what? He has no cites so he is casting doubt on mine. All lawyers are crooks dontchaknow? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/675 "2017-04-11T21:36:29Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The airline did NOT choose to use physical force; in fact, the so-called violence was by the police. Calling the police is choosing to use force. I’ve called the police on unruly customers before back when I was a fast food manager. I’ve never called them because someone was taking up a table, even when we were closing and I needed them to leave before I could. I’ve never called them because someone was taking up a table without ordering food. I’ve never called them because they ordered $50 in food, then laughed and ran away. These are all things that have happened, and have in fact cost my company money. The only time I called the police was when someone was making an unsafe situation. Threatening violence over hamburgers. I make these decisions, because I am aware that calling the police is an escalation. I cannot use force to get someone to leave my property, but I can call others who are authorized to use force to get someone to leave my property. You distinction that it was not the airlines that resorted to force is noted and dismissed, as force being applied is the only reason to call the police, so it was in fact the airlines decision to escalate the situation to using force. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/676 "2017-04-11T21:38:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Protecting his profession” from what? Drumming up business, overstating claims, etc. My former boss was featured in regular articles in the local alternative paper. Among other things, he would issue statements about how a 260 lb (built like a brick house) had every right to be intimidated by a 140 lb man (unarmed), how a child had a contractual right to be featured on a national sports program in a feature, etc. Of course, I worked for him long before I discovered this, but after I had several opposing counsels tell me to get out when I could, because the guy was shady and a laughing stock, I did some research and left. Turns out, the local legal community somewhat egged on the author of the pieces, because they were the very definition of baseless, frivolous law suits. And don’t get me started on his failed attempt to extort money from an insurance company when his client was suing under the “hit and run” clause of her insurance, when her car never made any contact with another vehicle, but instead she got spooked and served off the road. Yet, to laypeople, he could be seen as one of the leading attorneys in his field, because of the high publicity. Just because someone is being featured prominently for statements, it doesn’t make them correct. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/677 "2017-04-11T21:42:55Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > Just because someone is being featured prominently for statements, it doesn’t make them correct. I’m a civil defense attorney. I have more reason than anyone to doubt the statements of plaintiffs’ attorneys. But I don’t doubt this one. That is not to say that I think they are conclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/678 "2017-04-11T21:46:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m a civil defense attorney. I have more reason than anyone to doubt the statements of plaintiffs’ attorneys. But I don’t doubt this one. That is not to say that I think they are conclusive. Fair enough, I’m corporate in-house (thank god! No more billing hours, a reasonable schedule, don’t need to be a rainmaker, etc.), so I’ll defer to your thoughts on this. I was just more speaking to the point of, just because someone is well-known or oft-quoted, it doesn’t automatically make their point correct. Journalists try to drum up interest. Promoting the debate, showing both sides and dragging it out will get a lot more eyeballs than just saying, “Case closed! Nothing to see here!” I’m still think there’s a valid question as to what the term for him being escorted from the plane is, and how it meshes with the fine print associated with the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/679 "2017-04-11T21:46:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hardly. We have cites, you are relying simply on your opinion. Unless you think your opinion is evidence? To be fair, \*\*Czarcasm \*\*in post #660 was responding to something specific that I wrote (that I understood Dao was not shown the contract of carriage when asked to deplane). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/680 "2017-04-11T21:47:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I will bet Bricker will agree that a lawyer who is not representing a side should be considered neutral. > > Here are his bona fides: > > James P. Kreindler joined Kreindler & Kreindler LLP in 1983 and became a partner in 1987. He is a magna cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, 1977. He received his J.D. degree from Columbia University in 1980, where he was a Harlan Fiske Stone scholar. He began his career as an Assistant District Attorney in the Kings County (Brooklyn) District Attorneys’ Office. > > A specialist in aviation accident and terrorist litigation > Mr. Kreindler is a frequent lecturer on Aviation Accident Litigation and Terrorism Litigation throughout North and South America and Europe. He is the only Plaintiffs’ attorney, other than Lee Kreindler, asked to lecture at International Airline Transportation Association meetings. > > Mr. Kreindler is a fellow of the International Academy of Trial Lawyers. He also has been recently selected by Lawdragon for their latest 500 Leading Litigators in America’s list. > > Recipient of the 2009 Public Justice Lawyer of the Year Award. > > Bar Admissions > > New York, 1981 > U.S. District Court Eastern District of New York, 1981 > U.S. District Court Southern District of New York, 1981 > U.S. Federal Courts, 1981 > U.S. Court of Appeals 2nd Circuit, 1981 > U.S. Court of Appeals 5th Circuit, 1985 > U.S. Supreme Court, 1983 > U.S. Court of Appeals 9th Circuit > Education > > Columbia Law School, New York, New York > J.D. - 1980 > Honors: Harlan Fiske Stone Scholar > Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire > B.A. (Magna Cum Laude) - 1977 > Honors and Awards > > Martindale-Hubbell AC Rating 5 out of 5 > Listed in Ney York Best Lawyer > New York SuperLawyer > Professional Associations and Memberships > > American Bar Association, Member, Committee on Aviation Litigation > American Association for Justice, Member > New York State Trial Lawyers Association, Member, Board of Directors > New York County Lawyers Association, Member, Subcommittee on Aviation > Past Employment Positions > > Kings county District Attorney, A.D.A., 1980 - 1983 > Fraternities/Sororities > > Kappa Kappa Kappa You get an A+ for the cut-and-paste. BTW, I’ve heard that he currently makes a living suing airlines. Is that true? I so, I imagine the position he would take in this situation would be one that might bolster his own profession. Now, I’ve got nothing against this…but I wouldn’t mind hearing from the “other side”, if you know what I mean. Just to see if other lawyers not so tied to this might have something to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=35)