# United airlines brutally removes passenger after overbooking flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 10, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171 "2017-04-10T14:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/721 "2017-04-12T01:52:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. What’s my incentive to settle for $2000 when I can get a million? Your incentive to settle for $2000 is that if I am on your flight and they make an offer like that I will jump at it looooooong before it gets anywhere near a million. Guaranteed. And I doubt I would be the only person to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/722 "2017-04-12T01:54:59Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Your incentive to settle for $2000 is that if I am on your flight and they make an offer like that I will jump at it looooooong before it gets anywhere near a million. Guaranteed. And I lose nothing and my life goes on exactly as it has before. You, on the other hand, have taken a bad deal when you went in knowing you could hold out for more. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/723 "2017-04-12T02:00:38Z")
So, let’s review: [ul] [li]This story has turned into an intense, global media shitstorm for United.[/li][li]Tens of thousands of people have expressed outrage and said they will not fly United anymore.[/li][li]A nationwide boycott is being called for in China, one of United’s biggest markets.[/li][li]The officer in question is under review. The Chicago Dept. of Aviation said the incident was “not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned.” (Read that again if you need to).[/li][li]The CEO of the company has abjectly apologized, saying the passenger was “mistreated” and that United will “fix what’s broken.”[/li][/ul] And yet, there are _still_ people in this thread doggedly defending their actions. At what point do you guys take a step back and say, “Maybe I should re-think this?” ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/724 "2017-04-12T02:06:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And I lose nothing and my life goes on exactly as it has before. You, on the other hand, have taken a bad deal when you went in knowing you could hold out for more. Sez you but from where I sit you were foolish and I have $2000 in my pocket. But the real point, as numerous other posters have pointed out, there will ALWAYS be someone who will take the deal loooooong before it gets to your mythical million. And you will still be sitting there on the plane with nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/725 "2017-04-12T02:16:30Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Sez you but from where I sit you were foolish and I have $2000 in my pocket. > > But the real point, as numerous other posters have pointed out, there will ALWAYS be someone who will take the deal loooooong before it gets to your mythical million. And you will still be sitting there on the plane with nothing. We’re talking about a situation where this sort of “auction” would be happening hundreds of thousands of times a year. It only takes one planeload of sufficient stubborn people to hold out for immense sums before it goes viral and everyone realizes they can do it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/726 "2017-04-12T02:16:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Therefore there’s no reason for me to settle for less money than I can live off of for the rest of my life, nor is there for anyone else. This is hilarious. By this logic, i assume that you also don’t have a job, because you’re holding out for one that pays enough in one day to last the rest of your life. It may startle you to know this, but the vast majority of people, even those who can afford to fly on a regular basis, earn a lot less than $2000 a day. Even if the airline can’t get you on a flight for another 24 hours, and you have to make an overnight stay in a hotel room, you’re still making more than the vast majority of Americans. And this is precisely why there will ALWAYS be someone who will jump at an offer like this. No-one is saying that it has to be you. In fact, if it’s not worth $2000 to you, then you definitely should NOT accept the airline’s offer. That’s precisely the point here: to create a situation where there is an opportunity for ALL of the passengers to determine what it is worth to them to miss the flight. And if you think that this will constantly result in million-dollar payouts, might i suggest that you don’t understand game theory quite as well as you seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/727 "2017-04-12T02:17:44Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > From what I read on reddit, there were 4 United crew members who were on stand-by to fly to Frankfurt, KY for work. I’m sure a domino effect would ensue where then other planes wouldn’t be able to take off due to being understaffed. > > My husband and I pretty much exclusively fly Delta (or its codeshare partners) and have offered up our seats for money. In December, my husband, a friend, and I were all flying to Frankfurt via Amsterdam. That flight was overbooked and we offered to take a later flight via LHR. No big deal especially as we try to factor in flight delays into our travel plans. He’s offered to get bumped about every 5th flight it seems. Sometimes he gets it, other times he bid too high. We were both under the impression that the airline had to keep upping the compensation offer until someone took it though. > > That said… It sucks that this guy got bumped off of the flight. But he should have left after the first air marshal advised him to leave. Actually, he should have left when the flight crew told him to deplane. Federal law requires passengers to follow their instructions, whether you like it or not. > > United was at fault when they overbooked the flight. The guy was also at fault for not leaving when instructed to. The air marshals might have handled it better, but it didn’t seem like after having three people of them there and the flight crew telling him to leave that they had much of a choice. Ultimately, the doctor had a choice and chose poorly. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why not just keep upping the $ offer? Eventually someone will say yes, and paying a few grand for a big airline is nothing compared to the PR hit and lawsuits from physically dragging a passenger off the plane. > **[Why Delta Air Lines Paid Me $11,000 Not To Fly To Florida This Weekend](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2017/04/09/why-delta-air-lines-paid-me-11000-not-to-fly-to-florida-this-weekend/#7bdce5da4de1)** > > Delta encountered historic travel delays this week — and some passengers profited by getting bumped. Here's how you can make money from the airlines, too. Delta actually offers VISA gift cards, and they seem to be willing to pay a lot more than United was to get volunteers. The $800 offered by United is significant I think because it is about how much they would have to pay if they forced someone off the plane. So United is not willing to offer more for a volunteer than they would have to pay if they violently “re-accomodated” the passenger off the plane with a bloody face. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/728 "2017-04-12T02:19:38Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > As I posted above, they had the legal requirement to provide proper compensation Correct. > [@](#): > > which they did not do. Where the hell are you getting this nonsense from? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/729 "2017-04-12T02:23:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yes, the guy should have gotten off when ordered to. You follow flight crew instructions, that’s the rule. That MUST be the rule - it is the law, it’s common sense, and it’s a matter of safety. No matter how unfair you feel the orders are you follow them. As a wise man once said, “it might be my mission but it’s sure as shit the Chief’s boat.” When you are on a vessel you do what the crew tells you. He could have gotten off, and then raised hell at the customer service desk. Why MUST that be the rule? Why can’t the rule be that you cannot forcibly eject paying passengers who are behaving themselves. What safety issue did this passenger present? > [@](#): > > The airline also acted shittily. First of all, the overbooking situation absolutely could have been handled prior to boarding. I am sure their computers can count to a number above the number of seats on that airplane. Secondly, if no one wanted to get off for $800, raise it to $1200. It’s their fault the flight was overbooked and they should pay for it. If airlines are overbooking flights, they 're being paid for flights not taken. (To make it entirely fair there should be federal rules banning overbooking, or else no one airline can do it first.) Overbooking is fine as long as the airlines recognize that there is a cost side to the “cost benefit” of overbooking > [@](#): > > It’s hard to tell if the security guys overdid it. > > But here’s the kicker t hat everyone seemed to be missing: > > “The man was eventually allowed to re-board the plane, which left with a two-hour delay.” > > Um… so THEY DIDN’T NEED HIM TO GIVE UP HIS SEAT. They had a seat for him anyway. So the fuckup is, in fact, much greater than originally thought. They went through this idiocy and he ended up back on the plane. Jesus Christ. I wonder how THAT happened? If your flight crew is late for a flight, your airline pays something like $20,000/hour your plane is sitting at the gate so the airline is real anxious to get their crew to the flight on time. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/730 "2017-04-12T02:27:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If someone settles for a lesser amount, then I gain nothing, but I also _lose_ nothing. I guess this is hopeless. You will mainly either be influenced by the fact that virtually everyone else who has responded thinks your view is completely detached from reality…or more likely not. But just to try on merits one more time, the concept of ‘opportunity cost’ brought up by mhendo you seemed to gloss over. If the bidding got to $5k (which I gtee you it never would no matter how ‘stubborn’ a group of passengers were unless they could instantly agree to collude _and_ trust the winner to split the winnings) and somebody else took it, you would in fact lose something. You’d lose the excess which $5k represents over your real _opportunity cost_ of having to hang around in Chicago for another day, which is very likely a lot less than $5k as it would be for most people. It would cost you that to not jump on the $5k. And believe me somebody else would realize that even if you somehow don’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/731 "2017-04-12T02:27:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why MUST that be the rule? Why can’t the rule be that you cannot forcibly eject paying passengers who are behaving themselves. What safety issue did this passenger present? He was disobeying the instructions of the flight crew, which is both a federal crime and a severe threat to the lives of his fellow passengers and crew. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/732 "2017-04-12T02:33:01Z")
> [@Calatin](#): > > And delay / potentially cancel subsequent flights for the day, stemming from the delay incurred by getting those crew members to their subsequent flights late. You do know that the daily airplane schedule is a domino effect. If my flight is late, then the passengers risk missing their potential connecting flights, which (depending on whether the plane stays or not to wait) risks subsequent flights are delayed, etc. > > So, if I read you correctly, you’d rather risk inconveniencing hundreds of paying customers, than one. Planning for delay events is the airline’s job. The plane might be delayed for other reasons. Even if the staff are able to board, they still might not be able to fly. If that happens, then United surely has contingency plans. I’m saying this is just one more situation in which they have to go to that contingency. Pulling a passenger off a plane to use his seat for someone else should not be an option. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Don’t bring this stuff up in topics not about it, please, because all it serves is a subtle, small potshot at another poster. Sorry. What I mean to say is that this is the worst kind of armchair speculation. You don’t know what someone is capable or not capable of doing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/733 "2017-04-12T02:33:53Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > But just to try on merits one more time, the concept of ‘opportunity cost’ brought up by mhendo you seemed to gloss over. If the bidding got to $5k (which I gtee you it never would no matter how ‘stubborn’ a group of passengers were unless they could instantly agree to collude _and_ trust the winner to split the winnings) and somebody else took it, you would in fact lose something. You’d lose the excess which $5k represents over your real _opportunity cost_ of having to hang around in Chicago for another day, which is very likely a lot less than $5k as it would be for most people. It would cost you that to not jump on the $5k. And believe me somebody else would realize that even if you somehow don’t. 🙂 Who said anything about colluding or splitting the winnings? This is based on pure self-interest; if you offer me $X with the caveat that, if I don’t accept, you’ll offer me $2X, then it’s in my interest to decline and take my chances that my fellow passengers aren’t going to get suckered in by a cheap deal. And once people start hearing in the news about the one guy in Poughkeepsie who got $50000 for his seat, nobody’s going to want to be the sucker who settled for a $200 voucher. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/734 "2017-04-12T02:36:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Who said anything about colluding or splitting the winnings? This is based on pure self-interest; if you offer me $X with the caveat that, if I don’t accept, you’ll offer me $2X, then it’s in my interest to decline and take my chances that my fellow passengers aren’t going to get suckered in by a cheap deal. Yeah, okay, you’ll take your chances. And you’ll lose, because someone else won’t. You’ll never get $1 million, so there’s no risk to the airline that they’ll have to pay $1 million. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/735 "2017-04-12T02:40:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > This is hilarious. > > By this logic, i assume that you also don’t have a job, because you’re holding out for one that pays enough in one day to last the rest of your life. > > It may startle you to know this, but the vast majority of people, even those who can afford to fly on a regular basis, earn a lot less than $2000 a day. Even if the airline can’t get you on a flight for another 24 hours, and you have to make an overnight stay in a hotel room, you’re still making more than the vast majority of Americans. And this is precisely why there will ALWAYS be someone who will jump at an offer like this. > > No-one is saying that it has to be you. In fact, if it’s not worth $2000 to you, then you definitely should NOT accept the airline’s offer. That’s precisely the point here: to create a situation where there is an opportunity for ALL of the passengers to determine what it is worth to them to miss the flight. Exactly. There are lots and lots of people with flexible travel arrangements - backpackers, retirees, self-employed folks, and students among many others - who would be more than happy to spend another in a city for USD$2,000 in actual money. For some people that could be a month’s income or even more - they’d be quite happy to take the money, enjoy a complimentary hotel room and a complimentary replacement flight the next day AND have a stack of green notes with Ben Franklin on them for their trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/736 "2017-04-12T02:44:36Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Exactly. There are lots and lots of people with flexible travel arrangements - backpackers, retirees, self-employed folks, and students among many others - who would be more than happy to spend another in a city for USD$2,000 in actual money. > > For some people that could be a month’s income or even more - they’d be quite happy to take the money, enjoy a complimentary hotel room and a complimentary replacement flight the next day AND have a stack of green notes with Ben Franklin on them for their trouble. So you’re saying that if you give a person the choice between $2000 and $1 million, they’ll take $2000 because that’s good enough. This does not align with my experience of how human beings operate. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/737 "2017-04-12T02:46:13Z")
I have to say, this is a fascinating read. I’m usually on the fence or at least apathetic in these long drawn-out threads. I’ve never been more certain of my stance in this one. The passenger was totally at fault here. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/738 "2017-04-12T02:49:38Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > So, let’s review: > > [ul] > [li]This story has turned into an intense, global media shitstorm for United.[/li][li]Tens of thousands of people have expressed outrage and said they will not fly United anymore.[/li][li]A nationwide boycott is being called for in China, one of United’s biggest markets.[/li][li]The officer in question is under review. The Chicago Dept. of Aviation said the incident was “not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned.” (Read that again if you need to).[/li][li]The CEO of the company has abjectly apologized, saying the passenger was “mistreated” and that United will “fix what’s broken.”[/li][/ul] > > And yet, there are _still_ people in this thread doggedly defending their actions. At what point do you guys take a step back and say, “Maybe I should re-think this?” are you kidding? they’ve clearly left common sense and decorum behind pages ago. now its just a race to see who cums first! mc ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/739 "2017-04-12T02:50:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying that if you give a person the choice between $2000 and $1 million, they’ll take $2000 because that’s good enough. > > This does not align with my experience of how human beings operate. Why can you not see that no one is ever going to be given a choice between $2,000 and $1 million? That’s not the equation available to you in an auction. Once the price reaches “that’s good enough” for an individual, he is going to take it rather than risk losing it to someone else. And just as a reminder of United’s stellar history of customer service — “United Breaks Guitars” — [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5YGc4zOqozo/hqdefault.jpg "United Breaks Guitars") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo) ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171/740 "2017-04-12T02:55:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you’re saying that if you give a person the choice between $2000 and $1 million, they’ll take $2000 because that’s good enough. > > This does not align with my experience of how human beings operate. Somewhere, John Nash is quietly weeping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-airlines-brutally-removes-passenger-after-overbooking-flight/784171.md?page=38)