At no time have I seen any suggestion from the Doctor’s lawyer or any news organization, let alone any evidence, that the law enforcement officers were told by anyone from United to do any harm or violence to him. Disregarding cries that any call for law enforcement were automatically calls for violence I would say that the evidence so far supports my assertion. If facts to the contrary come to light, I would be willing to change my mind.
So contrary to what you said earlier, you do in fact sometimes assume things – in this case, based on a lack of evidence? I’ll note that there’s no evidence the airline didn’t direct the officers to physically assault/manhandle the passenger, as well.
Snark aside, I think you’re violating your own rules about assumptions and evidence and the like, and I suspect it’s because you’ve gone so hard for this one position that you feel unable to back off.
I’m probably guilty of the same ‘sin’ at some point, so I’ll suggest that you won’t lose face by backing off from some of the more silly lengths of this position. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t criticize Dao – just that, perhaps, you shouldn’t assume the absolute worst in terms of motives for Dao (and his lawyer), and the best for the airline.
And Cash, which is required by Law- is a lot more than a voucher.
Can you name one thing that the police can do that cannot be done by the flight crew that does not involve the use of force or violence?
Remember the part where I said
?
Of course. When someone bullies you and is breaking the law and is violating your rights, the proper thing to do is look at the ground and say “Yes sir.” a lot. Maybe since he’s native Chinese he should have been kowtowing as the cops punched him in the mouth.
When a police officer bullies you, the proper thing to do is comply and sue them later. That is not to say that I think Dao was at fault. It’s just typically a good idea to do what the cops tell you to do even when an order is unlawful.
You would like me to provide evidence that the police were not specifically instructed to do violence to him, while at the same time maintaining your position that any call for them is automatically a call for violence, which means that you are asking me for evidence that the police were never called at all.
Wow! You sure got me there didn’t you?
:rolleyes:
Those are literally the only two choices you can think of?
Think this through … exceptions are legion.
"Pilot’s orders … take this knife and stab the person next to you … NOW!"
“I’m the pilot and I’ve taken a fancy to you … disrobe and meet me in the cockpit pronto.”
I can come up with these all day. None of the laws or protocols involved here are inviolable absolutes.
I remember what you said, I even quoted it.
I am just asking you what you expected the police to do after they showed up that did not involve force or violence.
If you cannot answer that question, then your entire line of argument is futile.
“I’m going to sit in this seat and not move even if it blocks people from escaping this flaming aircraft!” If you want to come up with silly examples that stretch things to the insane, then I guess the right to keep your seat isn’t absolute, either.
Sure cave into the bully because it is convenient. You do realize that this shit only comes to light when someone does stand on their rights like the pregnant lady in California who had the phone slapped out of her hand and thrown to the ground* and arrested for not showing ID. Oh in case you care, not showing ID to a cop is LEGAL in California.
One thing I love about living in the United States is we have rights and corporations and police can’t just make up laws on the spot - not every country is like that. It’s sad so many Americans in this thread take that for granted.
Earlier I said that Dao was not the new Rosa Parks but some of you in this thread are making me sound like I do. If we get up to 30 pages of, “Hey if a cop asks you to lick his balls, just do it and take it to court later (and ignore that the cops will cover it up, destroy evidence and lie so you’ll lose anyways)” you’ll have me advocating for Dao to get the Nobel Peace Prize. Don’t laugh, it’s worked before.
*The baby was OK
Meanwhile, at Delta:
And so it begins.
Note that it was after United’s pilots union denounced the event.
I don’t think anyone was happy with the status quo except for the bean counters.
The point is that if you call the cops you know they will use force if the person does not comply - a person who has already not complied with your orders. As such the best case scenario is the person sees the cops and decides discretion is the better part of valor and willfully complies. If they don’t there will be violence. If you call the cops there is a significant chance that there will be violence. That in of itself is not a bad thing BUT the question United needed to ask and what they are responsible for is: is the realistic probability of violence worth Dao’s seat?
That’s because we are seeing what you think about the airlines, but little about Dao. Just so we understand each other, what do you think Dao did wrong that day, specifically?
While calling the police to deal with a contractual dispute may not typically end in physical assault if you are going to hold the debate to pedantic definitions it does meet the definition.
Or are you suggesting that calling in a security guard or police officer is not effective primarily due to the threat of physical force or power.
It doesn’t matter if the flight crew wanted them to resort to violence, but they were called to offer the threat of physical force and/or imprisonment.
Are you using “force” and “violence” interchangeably in the above post?