How Much Would You Put Up With to Avoid United Airlines? New York Times )
United Airlines’s self-induced crisis last week lost the company points on social media, and dollars in its market cap. But will it actually lose customers as a result?
The results of a clever experiment published today by Morning Consult suggest that — for the moment, at least — the answer is yes. When choosing between two identical (and hypothetical) flights, people who said they had heard about the United news in recent weeks strongly preferred flying with another airline. Many still chose a competitor’s flight even when it cost significantly more and came with a layover.
United Airlines’ PR Disaster Was Totally Avoidable, Thanks to Private Jets Motley Fool )
A private jet would do the trick
It may have seemed to the United staff on the ground that they had no choice but to bump four passengers from the flight. But a private jet could have solved the problem at a relatively modest cost.
The Department of Transportation’s rules on overbooking required United to pay cash compensation of $1,350 each to the four passengers that the carrier bumped, or $5,400 total. By contrast, the typical cost to charter a small private jet for the roughly one-hour flight from Chicago to Louisville would be about $6,000.
In fact, the founders of private aviation start-up FlyOtto recently invited United to try their service for free to reposition crews. FlyOtto would have been able to fly four people from Chicago to Louisville for just $2,930, albeit on a turboprop rather than a jet.Using private jets isn’t unheard of
In recent years, Delta Air Lines (NYSE:DAL) has pioneered the concept of using private jets alongside its regular commercial fleet. This works especially well for Delta, because it has an in-house private jet subsidiary: Delta Private Jets.
Two years ago, Delta began a pilot program to give elite frequent fliers the opportunity to upgrade to a seat on a private jet for as little as $300 one-way on certain flights. Private jets often fly empty on “repositioning” flights, as they go to make their next pick-up. Delta is using these empty flights to offer a once-in-a-lifetime experience to loyal customers who happen to be going the same way.
Delta Air Lines has also used its private jet fleet to pitch in during operational disruptions. For example, Delta flew more than 40 customers on private jets after a major technology outage caused numerous flight cancellations last August.
enipla:
But, if this did go to court, and Dr. Dao won based on UAL’s failure to follow DOT regulations, would you, manson1972 agree that what UAL did was illegal?
Wow, this thread is still going? sorry, I got drunk the other night and eventually had to go to sleep
But yes, if the court ruled that UAL failed to follow some sort of actual law, then of course I would agree that what UAL did was illegal.
Until then, I will treat anyone who says “It’s Illegal!” as not knowing what they are talking about.
“Yes, it appears that you are, indeed, the legitimate owner of this car. But it also appears that you have entered into a contract to rent this car out to this particular individual for a period of X days. The contract itself appears to be valid, and has all the signatures and provisions of a typical rental car contract. The renter has provided you with a form of payment sufficient to cover the agreed-upon terms of the contract. I’m afraid that i can’t treat this like a case of a stolen vehicle. The person in possession of the car has a document that provides him a legal claim to the car for the duration of the contract, and absent a violation of traffic or criminal law while in possession of the car, i have no authority to take it from him. You wil have to seek remedies later, through a civil procedure.”
If that happened, I would immediately flatten all 4 tires
Slash1972:
Wow, this thread is still going? sorry, I got drunk the other night and eventually had to go to sleep
But yes, if the court ruled that UAL failed to follow some sort of actual law, then of course I would agree that what UAL did was illegal.
Until then, I will treat anyone who says “It’s Illegal!” as not knowing what they are talking about.
In case you missed the reason why I say that their orders were illegal, I outline my argument there in #1267 .
If that happened, the cop would then arrest you, and, while you did manage to deny the rightful user of the car the ability to use it, you won’t get your car back here and now, it will be towed to an impound lot, once you get arraigned and released on bail for your refusal to obey police orders and intimidation, you will need to talk to a separate lawyer to see if you will still have a rental car business after the lawsuit against you bankrupts you.
But, you do bring up a good point. Essentially, that’s what they did in this case. They had no right to the seat, demanded it anyway, and when the demands were rightfully refused, resorted to violence to get their way. They acted exactly as you would have acted in the same situation, which is to say, very, very poorly.
Folly
April 17, 2017, 4:38pm
1305
Failing to follow a regulation is failing to follow the law that created the regulation. Or are you only referring to criminal law?
Without delving in to all the DOT regulations myself, its sounding like this exact situation isn’t covered and it would have to come down to an interpretation of what is there by a court, which probably won’t happen as the lawsuit will probably settle.
DrDeth
April 17, 2017, 4:58pm
1306
Including that Law Professor?:rolleyes:
I don’t agree with your argument. As proof, I submit that they were not charged and/or arrested for breaking that law.
Seems weird that I would be arrested for flattening the tires of my own car.
They acted exactly as you would have acted in the same situation, which is to say, very, very poorly.
I agree whole-heartedly that they reacted poorly. I’ve never said they haven’t. I’ve simply said that what they did isn’t illegal.
The law professor that quoted the CoC?
Folly
April 17, 2017, 5:36pm
1309
Ah, criminal law then. May I suggest that you are talking at cross purposes to posters not referring to criminal law.
DrDeth
April 17, 2017, 5:39pm
1310
who wasnt? The airline? The cops? The airline violated federal regs, and the penalty there is fines or even a license revocation, not jail.
The cops were suspended, pending further investigation. They possibly might face charges.
Sure they did. :rolleyes:
I admit they probably violated their CoC.
I’ve never once referred to the cops as doing or saying anything related to what I’m talking about.
Maybe, but I specified criminal law many posts ago. If the posters who keep screaming “illegal orders” and what-not simply say “I meant civil law, not criminal” then we can all be in agreement
DrDeth
April 17, 2017, 7:05pm
1313
Cite? I mean since it is really hard to arrest a Corporation, if you were talking criminal law, as opposed to violating Federal regulations you were making a specious argument no one else was even discussing.
DrDeth:
Cite? I mean since it is really hard to arrest a Corporation, if you were talking criminal law, as opposed to violating Federal regulations you were making a specious argument no one else was even discussing.
I believe the quote was “What the aircraft crew did was illegal” or something to that affect. I can track down the exact quote if you need it. And note, this was NOT talking about the police who came eventually. The poster was adamant that the crew telling the man to get off the plane was acting illegally. I simply wanted to know what law they were breaking, which was my initial question.
Slash1972:
Wow, this thread is still going? sorry, I got drunk the other night and eventually had to go to sleep
But yes, if the court ruled that UAL failed to follow some sort of actual law, then of course I would agree that what UAL did was illegal.
Until then, I will treat anyone who says “It’s Illegal!” as not knowing what they are talking about.
If that happened, I would immediately flatten all 4 tires
Isn’t assault illegal under any circumstances? A 69 year old man wound up with missing teeth and a broken nose.
DrDeth
April 17, 2017, 7:52pm
1316
Slash1972:
I believe the quote was “What the aircraft crew did was illegal” or something to that affect. I can track down the exact quote if you need it. And note, this was NOT talking about the police who came eventually. The poster was adamant that the crew telling the man to get off the plane was acting illegally. I simply wanted to know what law they were breaking, which was my initial question.
They, as Agents of United, were violating Federal regulations.
Sorry, even KILLING somebody is not illegal under every circumstance.
Besides I’m not asking about the dragging him out. Posters are stating that simply asking him to get off the plane is ‘illegal’
So manson, you are claiming that violating a civil law is not an illegal act?
Oh right, the infamous “Federal Regulations” :rolleyes:
That you keep pretending that you’ve linked too, but really haven’t.
And besides, is breaking a Federal Regulation the same as breaking the law?
Is an action that breaks a Federal Regulation considered “illegal”?
No, and I’ve never claimed that.
