# United healthcare CEO assassinated, the P&E edition {This is not a gun debate/statistics thread!} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 5, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195 "2024-12-05T13:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/301 "2024-12-11T01:23:07Z")
Anyone else find it kind of weird how much we know about this guy already compared to the guy who shot Trump? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/302 "2024-12-11T04:31:38Z")
I had to go on a deeper dive than I thought to find this thread, but here it is. In other words, someone who has a job that most people can’t quite figure out what they do, or why. > [@Job title: "Innovation Director"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-title-innovation-director/947293): > > Long story made short: Someone who participated in a recent local event works for a hospital here, and that is his job title. I had never heard of such a thing, so I Googled it, and in short, it’s a person who “sets the company culture.” I had never heard of such a thing, and it sounds like the kind of job that is performed by someone who is not well-liked by their colleagues, but is completely oblivious to this fact because the higher-ups think they’re da bomb. Does anyone here have any per… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/303 "2024-12-11T05:07:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This is supposed to be a post by Luigi. It’s a fake. This is the genuine one: > **[Exclusive: Luigi's Manifesto](https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/luigis-manifesto)** > > Read the manifesto the media refused to publish ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/304 "2024-12-11T05:55:50Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Anyone else find it kind of weird how much we know about this guy already compared to the guy who shot Trump? I thought it was kind of weird how very few people seemed to care that Trump was shot at. It came out fairly quickly the guy who took a shot at Trump was a kook. With Luigi there, we didn’t know who he was, so we didn’t know he was just a kook. We had time to build him into a hero. Was he some Jason Bourne type who lost a loved one because of a callous insurance company? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/305 "2024-12-11T06:01:54Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I thought it was kind of weird how very few people seemed to care that Trump was shot at. Well, the gunman failed in that case. So he didn’t accomplish anything and non-Trumpists didn’t feel obliged to ever pretend very hard they cared. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/306 "2024-12-11T08:49:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > 1. we pay doctors more than many countries. But maybe not more than Canada! > From [the Bureau of Labor statistics](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.htm) > > > Wages for physicians and surgeons are among the highest of all occupations, with a median wage equal to or greater than $239,200 per year. > > [Medical Doctor Salary in Canada - Average Salary](https://ca.talent.com/salary?job=medical+doctor#:~:text=Entry%2Dlevel%20positions%20start%20at,up%20to%20%24425%2C000%20per%20year). > > > The average **medical doctor** salary in **Canada** is **$247,298** per year or **$127** per hour. Entry-level positions start at **$59,204** per year, while most experienced workers make up to **$425,000** per year. > > (The page makes it clear that’s a median, not a mean.) > > [How much do Doctors earn in the UK? - Medic Mind](https://www.medicmind.co.uk/medicine-ucas-guide/how-much-do-doctors-earn-in-the-uk/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20data%20from,to%20%C2%A3150%2C000%20per%20year). The figures for average doctor salary in Canada may be in Canadian dollars, not US, thus explaining the “higher” salaries up in the Great White. I looked all over that page and couldn’t find what currency the salaries were in. The web address suggests Canadianess: > http// **ca**.talent.com/salary… …but who knows? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/307 "2024-12-11T13:05:09Z")
Oh, that’s probably true. How different are the currencies these days? I think of the Canadian dollar as being worth about the same as a US dollar. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/308 "2024-12-11T13:10:24Z")
$1USD = 1.42 CAD (Canadian dollars) (today). > **[USD/CAD Currency Exchange Rate & News - Google Finance](https://www.google.com/finance/quote/USD-CAD?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwipwaPj5J-KAxWkJDQIHX9WK3AQmY0JegQIARAl)** > > Get the latest United States Dollar to Canadian Dollar (USD / CAD) real-time quote, historical performance, charts, and other financial information to help you make more informed trading and investment decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/309 "2024-12-11T18:50:47Z")
These posts were in the MPSIMS thread, but I think my response belongs here. > [@UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[2024-12-04\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-2024-12-04/1011159/720): > > If these people you mention are the proximate cause of misery, and actively work to prevent any proposed reduction in that misery, then someone may choose to do something rash. Should we have wrung our hands if a few tobacco CEOs got assassinated in the 60’s for working so hard to kill their customers? The other twist is UHC’s resistance to reform. The CEO doesn’t only act in a destructive system, he perpetuates it by instructing his lobbyists to do so. Switzerland has a health care system based on private insurance without so much abuse, but no insurance exec is advocating for it. > [@UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[2024-12-04\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-2024-12-04/1011159/736): > > That’s all to the side, though: what I want is for people like Thompson and corporations like his company to be held accountable, and I don’t think killing someone on the street is an effective way to do that. On the other hand, I don’t know what would be effective short of having people grow both a conscience and a backbone. UHC is being sued, so they are held accountable in civil court. Holding them accountable in criminal court would involve a change in the law, a heavy lift. Health care reform is always a heavy lift. It only happens when both houses are controlled by Democrats, and even then it’s very hard because people balk when you try to reform 1/6th or more of the economy. So what is to be done? The rule of law works well, narrowly speaking. Don’t murder unless you are prepared to spend at least 30 years in prison, probably more. Aggressively hunt down assassins who target the elite: the system needs to protect itself. And make jokes when the vics are very bad actors. If UHC’s denial rate is twice the industry standard, then they are malignant innovators. ID them as such. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that if you cause enormous suffering, are evasive about what you are doing, and are rewarded for your malicious policies beyond most people’s dreams, then you don’t get to saunter down the street in a bright blue suit without a security detail. Checks and balances. One more thing. Consumer Reports needs to ID the worst actors in the health care industry. So do other reviewers. The lists need to be widely distributed and individuals need to have a word with HR as appropriate. That’s not sufficient - the system is terrible _though better than it was before Obamacare_, but it’s something that can be done now. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/310 "2024-12-11T22:27:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > … Even under the best conditions the great majority of people _simply don’t have_ the knowledge or the time to accurately judge what hospital or procedure is best. Yes. No market operates efficiently under such conditions. BUT: > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > people balk when you try to reform 1/6th or more of the economy And the size of the industry gives money-hungry politicians, who are paid by the industry to let the deadly, inefficient system continue, a ready excuse for doing nothing about it. “We can’t put all those people out of work,” etc. etc. Not even the many examples of other nations’ success with not-for-profit and/or more-regulated health care (and insurance) systems can overcome the rapacious appetite of US politicians for health-industry dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/311 "2024-12-11T22:48:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Not even the many examples of other nations’ success with not-for-profit and/or more-regulated health care (and insurance) systems can overcome the rapacious appetite of US politicians for health-industry dollars. While I’m happy to blame lobbyists, the lopsidedness of the voting patterns between parties suggests other explanations. Every. Single. Republican. Voted. Against. The Affordable Care Act. The GOP promised their supporters that they would repeal Obamacare, but couldn’t get their act together to replace it with anything. I don’t like blaming, “Politicians”, when the actual word is “Republicans”. A number of Democratic reps lost their re-election bid following their courageous votes for the ACA. They said it was worth it. I agree and I acknowledge their patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/312 "2024-12-11T23:24:55Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I don’t like blaming, “Politicians”, when the actual word is “Republicans”. A number of Democratic reps lost their re-election bid following their courageous votes for the ACA. That is true and I don’t disagree with the basic notion that Republicans bear more responsibility for the awful US health-industry situation than do Democrats. Democrats (as a general class) are not blameless, though. With few exceptions, they _do_ accept money from the industry. It’s hard to believe that their infinite patience for ‘incremental change’ doesn’t have _some_ connection with those donations. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/313 "2024-12-12T00:02:38Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > That is true and I don’t disagree with the basic notion that Republicans bear more responsibility for the awful US health-industry situation than do Democrats. Democrats may have voted for the Affordable Care Act but when it comes to taking campaign money from lobbying groups from health insurance, health ‘maintenance’ providers, and pharmaceutical companies they’re on a pretty even scale. For instance: [OpenSecrets: “Health PACs contributions to candidates, 2019-2020”](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/industry-detail/H/2020) [OpenSecrets: “Health PACs contributions to candidates, 2021-2022”](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/industry-detail/H/2022) [OpenSecrets: “Health PACs contributions to candidates, 2023-2024”](https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/industry-detail/H/2024) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/314 "2024-12-12T00:37:10Z")
Thing is, Medicare For All (single payer) polls well until voters realize they will be losing the health care plan that they have and are (rightly or wrongly) happy with. The health insurance industry would fund a blizzard of ads against it (as they did with the [Harry and Louise campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_and_Louise)), but I opine that the nonstop drumbeat from Fox News and repetitive, consistent, and monotonous messaging against socialism by GOP politicians are more effective. After all, we lost a public option by one single Democratic vote, provided by a politician representing the insurance capital of Hartford Connecticut. So for all the millions of donations in special interest, Democrats are willing to cut deals between the various forces in society. Which is, you know, a politicians job. Too bad only one party does it. You can point to funding, but I think the track record is pretty clear. Democrats will at least consider the public interest, unless it conflicts with the top 2 industries in their state or district. Republicans consistently blow it off in favor of strategically deployed free market rhetoric. It wasn’t _always_ this way. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/315 "2024-12-12T03:26:08Z")
I can’t help but keep thinking that, if Joe Lieberman had not blocked Medicare for All 15 years ago, Luigi Mangione would likely be free today and would not have blood on his hands. And that CEO would still be alive too, because he would have had less blood on his hands. Joe Lieberman really hurt this country. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/316 "2024-12-12T03:28:42Z")
> [@Gozu](#): > > I can’t help but keep thinking that, if Joe Lieberman had not blocked Medicare for All 15 years ago, Wait, what? You mean Sanders crazy plan which he misnamed? Never would have passed. Or the Medicare Buy In compromise? That also wasnt passing. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/317 "2024-12-12T01:01:22Z")
> [@UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[2024-12-04\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-2024-12-04/1011159/749): > > > [@UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[2024-12-04\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-2024-12-04/1011159/745): > > > > ^ Yeah, that was my thought. My experience working in the Evil Insurance Empire was that we all pretty much knew where the money came from. Some were there as a career, others like me were there because it was a way to get coverage for either ourselves or our family. > > Everyone has their own excuse. This was in the days before pre-existing conditions were forced to be covered. My disabled spouse had already maxed out one Blue Cross policy in his 20’s (back where that was a possibility). The ONLY way I could get insurance for him was to work for the company. Or maybe I should have just watched him suffer and die? I felt dirty a lot of the time but if I hadn’t done that he would have died a couple decades before he actually did because at the time _no one_ would cover him. No one. And we weren’t making enough money to pay out-of-pocket. Call it an “excuse” if you will - I couldn’t think of another way to keep him out of pain and alive. > [@UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[2024-12-04\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-2024-12-04/1011159/755): > > If that approach worked we’d have already had single-payer healthcare in the USA by 30 years ago. 50 years ago - “Medicare for all” was proposed as far back as the Nixon administration (then Watergate derailed a lot of stuff that might have otherwise happened). ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/318 "2024-12-12T01:37:02Z")
Ad long as Republicans exist and keep getting voted into office, universal health care will never ever ever happen. If you voted Republican or supported Republicans in your past you can look at yourself in the mirror when trying to find someone to blame. Your bloodthirsty fantasies aren’t going to do anything. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/319 "2024-12-12T01:49:31Z")
> [@UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[2024-12-04\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-2024-12-04/1011159/758): > > Seriously, though, one of our most celebrated founding myths is the time an angry mob dressed up in gang colors and destroyed a whole bunch of corporate property. A bunch of criminals trying to keep their smuggling business going is maybe not a great example to follow. Look, if you want murders to just be a thing people encourage because they don’t like some element of public policy, I wish you well. It’s not going to turn out the way you were hoping. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/320 "2024-12-12T01:50:36Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > If you voted Republican or supported Republicans in your past you can look at yourself in the mirror when trying to find someone to blame. As mentioned upthread, Nixon of all people was in the process of extending Medicare to everyone when Watergate intervened. Republicans then and now are very different parties. Dems too, but the R’s have had a brain-ectomy and been turned into Beelzebub, while Ds now are simply much of what Rs used to be then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195.md?page=17)