# United healthcare CEO assassinated, the P&E edition {This is not a gun debate/statistics thread!} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 5, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195 "2024-12-05T13:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/761 "2025-04-01T21:44:48Z")
Of course. He killed one of the aristocracy, and we can’t have _that._ ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/762 "2025-04-01T21:48:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He killed one of the aristocracy, and we can’t have _that._ A quick Google search says there are 44 murders per day in the US. Another quick Google search says only 54% of murders in the US are solved. But they sure as shit got this guy in record time. So yeah, if you mess with the aristocracy there is no limit to the resources sent after you. If you are Joe Normal person then…eh. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/763 "2025-04-01T21:50:41Z")
The murder was meticulously planned and committed in broad daylight. Of course Mangione was caught and who didn’t expect prosecutors to seek the death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/764 "2025-04-01T21:52:27Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > …who didn’t expect prosecutors to seek the death penalty? Me. I thought New York does not have the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/765 "2025-04-01T21:53:04Z")
They’re federal charges. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/766 "2025-04-01T21:56:04Z")
Really asking… Since when is murder a federal crime? I thought each state did its own thing when it comes to murder. We do not see federal charges brought when one gang banger shoots another gang banger. Why is this different? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/767 "2025-04-01T21:56:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A quick Google search says there are 44 murders per day in the US. > > Another quick Google search says only 54% of murders in the US are solved. > > But they sure as shit got this guy in record time. > > So yeah, if you mess with the aristocracy there is no limit to the resources sent after you. If you are Joe Normal person then…eh. I recall it being pointed out when they affair hit the news that on the same day, two children were murdered at a school. You barely even heard of it, and they certainly won’t seek the death penalty. Because two commoner children don’t matter, they are just vermin; Mangione killed a _rich white male,_ an _actual human being_ not one of the subhumans. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/768 "2025-04-01T22:06:23Z")
Mangione crossed state lines. That’s really all Justice needs in a case like this. ETA: More: > Mangione is charged with one count of using a firearm to commit murder, which carries a maximum penalty of death or life in prison; one count of interstate stalking resulting in death, which carries a maximum penalty of life in prison; one count of stalking through use of interstate facilities resulting in death, which carries a maximum penalty of life in prison; and one count of discharging a firearm that was equipped with a silencer in furtherance of a crime of violence, which carries a maximum penalty of life in prison and a mandatory minimum penalty of 30 years. A federal district court judge will determine any sentencing after considering the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors. [**SOURCE**](https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/luigi-mangione-charged-stalking-and-murder-unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-and-use) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/769 "2025-04-01T22:08:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Since when is murder a federal crime? The DoJ position is that the killing was a political statement and therefore qualifies as terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/770 "2025-04-01T22:17:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Since when is murder a federal crime? I thought each state did its own thing when it comes to murder. Mangione crossed state lines so the feds claimed jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/771 "2025-04-01T22:21:32Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Mangione crossed state lines so the feds claimed jurisdiction. No doubt that is true for this. I wonder how many times someone went from New Jersey to New York City and killed someone without federal charges being filed (as one example…just saying)? This is a place, were I juror, to use jury nullification. I think he should be in jail but I also think the government is stomping on this guy in a special way that is unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/772 "2025-04-01T22:41:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The DoJ position is that the killing was a political statement and therefore qualifies as terrorism. That seems to be New York’s position as well. Of the three murder charges the state levied against Mangione, at least two of them mention the crime was done in furtherance of an act of terrorism. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is a place, were I juror, to use jury nullification. I think he should be in jail but I also think the government is stomping on this guy in a special way that is unfounded. Do you think this is the first time the feds have taken on a case where someone plans a crime in one state and then crosses state lines to commit the crime? I think Mangione understood exactly what he was getting himself into and I don’t feel sorry for him one little bit. If the victim was a school teacher would you feel the same way? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/773 "2025-04-01T22:46:30Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Do you think this is the first time the feds have taken on a case where someone plans a crime in one state and then crosses state lines to commit the crime? I think Mangione understood exactly what he was getting himself into and I don’t feel sorry for him one little bit. If the victim was a school teacher would you feel the same way? Pretty close. Since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976 there have been 1[6 people executed by the federal government.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the_United_States_federal_government) 16 people in almost 50 years. And this guy measures up to that? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/774 "2025-04-01T23:10:38Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Mangione crossed state lines. That’s really all Justice needs in a case like this. How many large metro areas in the USA abut a state line, such that it would be trivially common for someone to cross a state boundary in the normal course of their lives? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/775 "2025-04-01T23:32:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And this guy measures up to that? Why? Is that a serious question? They are seeking the death penalty because he is in a unique category: he used violence to go after the healthcare industry. The American healthcare industry saves lives and makes enemies every day, often at the same time. They’re sending as strong a message as they can not to go for vigilante justice, but instead to welcome your newfound medical poverty and live quietly with injustice. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/776 "2025-04-01T23:38:00Z")
But, if you live in Davenport, you go to work in Moline and shoot your cow-orker in the head, and they establish that you planned out this killing months in advance, with mounds of evidence in your Davenport home, the Feds are simply not going to get involved unless there is some significant issue of federal law involved. In Luigi’s case, they only joined the fray because it was high profile and they could call it terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/777 "2025-04-01T23:43:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In Luigi’s case, they only joined the fray because it was high profile and they could call it terrorism. I mean, it very clearly _was_ terrorism. You can _agree_ with the motivation if you want, but it was clearly an example of the use of violence to cause fear to achieve political goals. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/778 "2025-04-02T00:16:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I mean, it very clearly _was_ terrorism. > > You can _agree_ with the motivation if you want, but it was clearly an example of the use of violence to cause fear to achieve political goals. And so is seeking the death penalty against him. But somehow I doubt the court intends to commit suicide afterwards. It’s not terrorism because he used violence for political reasons, that happens all the time without punishment. It’s terrorism because he punched _up._ The most basic rule of an oligarchy is that the victims are not allowed to fight back. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/779 "2025-04-02T00:16:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I mean, it very clearly _was_ terrorism. > > You can _agree_ with the motivation if you want, but it was clearly an example of the use of violence to cause fear to achieve political goals. Are we sure? Was Luigi expressly commiting an act of terrorism, or was he just pissed at UH? In this case, they claim to have found material that suggests that it was, but this is an area in which we must tread carefully. If a person commits a crime for the sake of the act, and the government intreprets the effect as terrorism by nature when that was not the actual intent, it leaves anyone vulnerable to having their actions defined to suit the needs of the government’s sponsors. _cf_, Felon-ONE’s declaration that protesting outside certain car dealerships as terrorism, which stands in conflict with 1A’s guarantee of petition for redress. It is not cut-and-dried. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/780 "2025-04-02T00:36:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Was Luigi expressly commiting an act of terrorism, or was he just pissed at UH? He had no specific interaction with UHC. Their CEO was targeted because of their symbolic value only. Personally I think he was/is highly probably significantly mentally ill and on that basis alone do not think he should given a death penalty. If he was not then yes it clearly was an act of domestic terrorism… so he should get a pardon from Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195.md?page=40)