# United healthcare CEO assassinated, the P&E edition {This is not a gun debate/statistics thread!} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 5, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195 "2024-12-05T13:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/881 "2025-05-16T16:17:47Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Oh, good, because nobody has EVER made a mistake based on circumstantial evidence. I actually doubt anyone has ever confused a drug deal with a serial killing by mistake. But whatever, maybe you think I’m arguing every decision and action must be perfect or otherwise nothing can ever be attempted. I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/882 "2025-05-16T16:34:04Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > I actually doubt anyone has ever confused a drug deal with a serial killing by mistake. That’s an interesting assumption. What are you basing it on? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/883 "2025-05-16T16:56:40Z")
There’s an interesting political-intellectual divide I’m seeing a lot these days, where a lot of people seems to think the real world and its problems are a lot simpler than they actually are. Thus **Pedro** can’t understand why we’re all so appalled by his example, and (at the other extreme), Luigi can’t understand why shooting CEOs is not going to solve our healthcare problems. {I realize that assumes he was trying to solve a problem rather than exacting venegeance or just crazy or some other motive, but certainly some of his supporters are expressing this sort of overly simple worldview.} ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/884 "2025-05-16T18:52:13Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > There’s an interesting political-intellectual divide I’m seeing a lot these days, where a lot of people seems to think the real world and its problems are a lot simpler than they actually are. Thus **Pedro** can’t understand why we’re all so appalled by his example, and (at the other extreme), Luigi can’t understand why shooting CEOs is not going to solve our healthcare problems. I think it many cases it’s not a belief that killing him is a _good_ solution, or even _a_ solution; just it’s the only “solution” that can even be _attempted._ Reform clearly simply won’t be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/885 "2025-05-16T18:57:20Z")
I’m sympathetic to that point of view, because I believe it’s true-ish: reform _isn’t_ going to happen in our system. It’s just that murdering the villains isn’t going to result in fewer villains, as there’s an infinite pool of people who will make decisions in favor of money while conveniently ignoring the people who are ultimately paying for it. But that’s the point about complex systems: merely considering financial implications will NEVER solve the healthcare woes, because finances are only a part of the picture. How healthy do we want people to be, and why? What _is_ the point where we should deny care to people, and why? Those are the questions that don’t seem to be articulated. I think the unarticulated answers are “they should be just healthy enough to work, and no more; if treatment is unlikely to result in a contribution to the economy, then we should deny them care.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/886 "2025-05-16T19:00:03Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I think the unarticulated answers are “they should be just healthy enough to work, and no more; if treatment is unlikely to result in a contribution to the economy, then we should deny them care.” Only for the moderates; for the rest it’s “Whatever maximizes suffering and death”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/887 "2025-05-16T19:00:53Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Incarceration is punishment which is deterrence for all future criminals that wish to harm children. It is also deterrence for gangbangers who wish to harm other gangbangers, but no one really cares about that except here in this SDMB bubble. In the first place, that’s an incredibly naive take on the real-life impacts of gang violence. As puzzlegal pointed out, “gangbangers who wish to harm other gangbangers” are also responsible for a lot of deaths of nearby children and other non-gang members who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. (Even without taking into account the fact that since drug dealing isn’t actually a capital crime, we should not condone or ignore the murder of drug dealers.) In the second place, I don’t know why you have this mistaken obsession with the idea that responsibly investigating the murders of both child sexual assault victims and drug-dealing gang members is somehow sending the message that the latter has as much social “worth” as the former. That’s completely irrational. We can support the principle of equality before the law by taking all murder investigations seriously, without thereby advocating for the position that a criminal drug-dealing gang member is just as socially valuable or admirable as the more law-abiding members of society. You seem to have this notion that it’s somehow “coddling criminals” to recognize even the most basic human rights of criminals, such as equal protection under the law. That’s nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/888 "2025-05-16T19:26:38Z")
Yes, one of the reasons that “criminal drug-dealing gang members” are a problem is that they tend to make the neighborhood dangerous for a lot of innocent people. Like Sally. It’s important to investigate and prosecute those crimes not because our drug dealer is a valuable member of society, but because Sally is, and she should be able to live in peace ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/889 "2025-05-16T20:22:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Since when do CEOs suffer because their company collapses? Well, they do lose their meal ticket, Now sure if they were even halfway careful, they should have enough socked away that standing in the Unemployment line is not a thing, but those people LOOOOVE money and less coming in is bad. > [@Pedro](#): > > Excuse me for being a little tired of this discussion but do you know anyone who thinks a child sexual assault and murder victim isn’t more worthy of protection than a violent gang member, subjective as that opinion may be? This is why many crimes come with added “special circumstances”. But those should be a matter of law, not one persons opinion. However of course the Chief of detectives or whoever has limited manpower, and they want cases closed, so unproductive cases are often dropped as 'cold cases". > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > _Aaaannd_ the CEO’s death has apparently exposed the fact that he was running the business into the ground. That article does not seem to imply that. It blames more the replacement CEO, not the dead one. > [@Kimstu](#): > > In the first place, that’s an incredibly naive take on the real-life impacts of gang violence. As puzzlegal pointed out, “gangbangers who wish to harm other gangbangers” are also responsible for a lot of deaths of nearby children and other non-gang members who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. One reason the police spend less time on such crimes is the "snitches get stitches’ meme- few if any witnesses will come forward, leaving the cops with not much in the way of a case. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/890 "2025-05-16T20:52:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, they do lose their meal ticket, Now sure if they were even halfway careful, they should have enough socked away that standing in the Unemployment line is not a thing, but those people LOOOOVE money and less coming in is bad. More likely they just get handed the CEO position at another company and keep doing whatever they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/891 "2025-05-16T22:08:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That article does not seem to imply that. It blames more the replacement CEO, not the dead one. Yeah, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows the “new” CEO wasn’t in there long enough to run the company into the ground. Must be why Wall Street reacted positively to his firing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/892 "2025-05-16T23:14:10Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Yeah, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows the “new” CEO wasn’t in there long enough to run the company into the ground. I will accept that as a definite possibility, but still the cite didnt imply it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/893 "2025-05-16T23:57:05Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Yeah, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows the “new” CEO wasn’t in there long enough to run the company into the ground. Must be why Wall Street reacted positively to his firing. The CEO who just resigned, Andrew Witty, wasn’t new and wasn’t the replacement for the dead guy, Brian Thompson. Witty has been the CEO of United HealthGroup, the overall holding company, since 2021. Thompson was the CEO of UnitedHealth, a subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group. Witty was the public face of the company in the days following the killing. My recollection is he said some remarkably tone-deaf things. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2025, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/894 "2025-05-17T00:15:17Z")
Witt spoke in a leaked video that was supposed to reassure the employees. Two comments he made stuck out for me: > ”… we guard against the pressures that exist for unsafe or unnecessary care to be delivered “ > He went on to encourage employees to “tune out” criticism of the insurance company adding it “does not reflect reality.” > **[UnitedHealth CEO faces backlash after leaked video defends stopping...](https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/unitedhealth-group-ceo-andrew-witty-faces-backlash-after-leaked-internal-video-employees-defends-stopping-unnecessary-care-unitedhealthcare-ceo-brian-thompson-killed-new-york-city-luigi-mangione-altoona-pennsylvania-mcdonalds-health-insurance-claims?fbclid=IwY2xjawHHJdtleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHX8AEXfiP1wdGP5IVYSti878A2Un7y-AAcKDMBFKWdCQTC71r9-I7pEp6Q_aem_jtsgqrggZ-EU1bGEsQpoTg)** > > On Tuesday, Mangione was denied bail in Pennsylvania and his attorney said they plan to contest extradition. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195/895 "2025-05-22T21:01:10Z")
And another UnitedHealth story: reportedly, they paid nursing homes to reduce transfers of sick residents to hospitals. > **[Revealed: UnitedHealth secretly paid nursing homes to reduce hospital transfers](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/21/unitedhealth-nursing-homes-payments-hospital-transfers)** > > A Guardian investigation finds insurer quietly paid facilities that helped it gain Medicare enrollees and reduce hospitalizations. Whistleblowers allege harm to residents [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united-healthcare-ceo-assassinated-the-p-e-edition-this-is-not-a-gun-debate-statistics-thread/1011195.md?page=44)