By the fact that my largely problem free healthcare costs me 2-3x what other people pay for the same thing. That’s money that could be in my pocket or helping me make ends meet, instead it’s enriching people like health insurance CEOs who do nothing but insert themselves into my healthcare so they can suck billions of dollars out of it.
I’ve no idea if that figure is correct or not but it certainly could be, probably is, and there are many reasons for it, not only the waste that the insurance company process builds in. Plus our current system delivers care arguably of poorer quality than other systems to many. Once again, fewer without any coverage is a huge improvement, but the structural inequities built into the system remain horrific. I am often ashamed for my part in it and have to content myself with keeping blinders on to do the best I can in my little world.
I get being unhappy about that. Really I do. And LOTS more. My disconnect is the willingness to accept going from that unhappiness with the expense, the being “stressed out” about it, and “bitter” about it to being able to
The normalization of reacting to being upset over high prices, to stress, to bitterness, with rage, and the understanding that murder is an understandable response to that rage?
That such is the mindset of so many? Heck even that only surprises me a little: I have a cynical view of human nature. I get disappointed to have that view verified but so it goes. But I get more surprised to hear it endorsed so much here.
And I know I have repeated my position to excess. My apologies. I will try to lurk only henceforth and only respond if specifically addressed.
No, people were concerned over inflation. And rightly so. But the big boost to inflation was caused by the end of covid (kinda0 and the supply chain issues. So, inflation is a very real issue- but the White House has little control over Inflation. There was no reason to blame the Biden administration.
And no, the major news outlets constantly carried stories of high prices- like on eggs- which was due to bird flu also. Crime is at an all time low, but the news outlets constantly carried stories of shoplifting.
Your final line is not true on both counts.
I think the difference is that you and most of us have a bright, sharp line between negative emotions and murder. What you might consider is that some people feel the emotions strongly, without the same bright line.
Didn’t Jared Diamond point out that murder is at historically low rates? And murder is often a response to rage, and most people find that a more excusable reason to murder than for monetary gain, increase in power, or sex, the other common reasons.
I mean, surely this guy was also triggered by being in pain, and a sense that it was unfair that he was in constant pain.
I’m not saying it speaks especially well of mankind, but this is hardly a revelation. 
Okay, spoken to I will respond.
Diamond is probably right on the numbers. And there has been a solid downward murders trend overall even over the past several decades despite all the talk about murder rates and blips for a few years every so often. But we have some very highly publicized murders. Mostly condemned even as they get celebrity status, but not always or in all circles.
I actually doubt that you are correct that murder is often a response to rage, in either interpretation of that sentence. Rage too frequently leads to violence because even rarely is too frequently, but “often” is not true. Most can experience rage without killing in response to it. And I do not think most murders are motivated by rage. More as acts of power and control than the loss of control that rage implies.
Still the fact that actual murder is at historically low rates to me makes the willingness to be understanding of it (even appreciating and fantasizing about it in some circles and even among at least one poster here) all the more disturbingly remarkable?
If this was the Old South with the Code of Chivalry, which demanded a duel for perceived insults as the social norm, or a time of such scarcity that kill or be killed was the common state, then of course the use of fatal force for perceived offenses and to right perceived wrongs would not shock. We are not those times. Even I suspect increasingly common road rage rarely leads to deaths.
I don’t see the state of healthcare coverage as reaching a rage level, but even if it did, “Of course rage results in murder” is not our actual common reality. Yet many endorse the belief? You endorsed the belief yourself.
“This guy” as a reality is not the issue. Again I suspect in reality he was someone who had a psychotic break triggered by a very stressful period of recurring severe unremitting pain and had a Unabomber inspired delusion of grandeur. The who this guy is imagined to be, the how justified so many think that imagined character would be in so many minds, the why of those jumps, is the issue for me.
No, if i said that that usually leads to murder, i misspoke. But i think rage is a common cause of murder. Not that safe coming leads to murder, but that when there’s murder, rage was a common cause.
And on that interpretation as well I don’t think so. My suspicion again is that murder is more commonly motivated as a means of exerting control, not out of rage. No data to offer though.
“High prices” sounds a bit like litotes to me. And, honestly, it is not really the main issue.
We hear stories that go something like, “We did everything right, had a nice home, life was going great, then [ major medical event ] turned out was not covered (they said), so we lost everything trying to prevent [ family member ] from dying.” I would guess that these incidents are no more common than covid deaths, but hearing about even one of them makes people uncomfortable.
The poll linked upthead counts some 58% of respondents saying they have had no particular difficulty with their health insurance, which makes the other numbers seem oddly skewed. But, it is this great dark cloud hanging over all our heads that breeds the anxiety that drives support for the shooter. It could happen to us – and after we kept up on our premiums all this time.
I think “high prices” just leaves way too much out of the picture.
Just quoting the reason given by the poster I was responding to, who cited the excess costs (and I threw in, often poor relative value for the cost) as the reason for so many to be so upset, even though most had no problems with coverage issues or among their friends and families.
Your concern, the threat of medical bankruptcies looming as a fear? Happens. Should happen less with the ACA but turns out not to have dropped much. (It is still concentrated in the chronically poor, now more likely covered but not well enough and with poor access to credit.) But it has not increased as a problem to explain new understandable rage.
Every other item went up. It wasn’t the bird flu.
Those surveys showing that most people are satisfied with their insurance remind me of the stories you often see about how Congress’ approval rating is in the toilet, even though most people approve of their own congresscritter.
I think plenty of people recognize that the system is pretty flawed. Most people may indeed like the insurance they have, especially if they only use it for their annual check ups or the occasional visit to the doctor when they contract a stomach bug or sprain their ankle. But, they’ve heard all the horror stories about people driven into penury because their insurance refused to cover a lifesaving treatment, and they live in fear of what might happen if they were to develop cancer or require longterm physical therapy for a serious injury.
“Rage”? Sorry, I am not perceiving anything resembling “rage” on the part of the broader populace, only the shooter. Fear on the part of executroids and the wealthy, but mostly meh, he had it coming from many people.
The rationale offered by @puzzlegal was understanding that rage over these issues, that that rage, and the desire to act upon it by killing a symbol of the industry made sense. Not necessarily feeling the rage, but having empathy for it. (Again nevermind that rage may have had nothing to do with what Mangione did.)
Pull out the rage. Fine. What are we left with?
People who for the most part have not had problems with healthcare coverage, at least recently, but who are bitter over things like an ultrasound read having been sent out of network and having to pay more, how much their premiums are when they know people in other countries pay less, and fear that a bad illness may still bankrupt them.
All to various degrees reasonable complaints. And a longer list that I have.
I still have a problem with the leap from that list, to thinking that those things rise to the executive “had it coming.”
And that is what I think is happening too. Not endorsing a rise against oppression as, let’s pick @OldOlds, would frame it. Not because the industry lobbies against Medicare for All. Not because “they” prevent single payer which would very likely both save lives and money. Just “meh he deserved it” because he is a symbol of an industry that I am an unsatisfied customer of.
Which I see as not being about healthcare but about us as the disturbing issue. Does that leap come from reacting to a sense of powerlessness? Dehumanizing those on the other side of the entities we interact with? (Something your “exectroid” neologism would be consistent with.) Normalization of seeing killing in the news? I dunno. I do strongly suspect it shares reasons with Trump’s popularity in a way that crosses political beliefs.
I’ll just say that I think focusing specifically on the United Health/Insurance role is overly myopic. People are frustrated, and not without reason. It’s why MAGA is a thing, and not only in the US. We’ve discussed that it’s happening all over the world. There are plenty of villains out there. And the reason I bring up oppression by the Corpratocracy is because governments SHOULD side with the people, but they rarely do. Different people will have different pain points. I’ve read stories of farmers losing crops due to right to repair issues- it would be exactly the same thing if one of them went after the CEO of Deere.
I’m in a good place; I am by no means supportive of what Mangione did. I just get it. I know why people are cheering him, and to my point earlier I’m nowhere near that tipping point; where that tipping point is will be determined when a critical mass of people get there.
And if we’re seeing that many people cheer Mangione on, maybe the powers that be should take notice. Maybe we’re closer than we think.
Oh, and I will criticize the tone deaf NYC response. Special 911 lines for CEOs is NOT going to make this better. Some are more equal than others indeed.
ETA: When I made the comparison to the feudal lord and corporate masters, things like Right to Repair and forcing everyone into a subscription model is something that really makes people feel small. It leaves them beholden to a company with few or no options. People are far angrier about that then many realize. That saying about “if a service is free, you are the product.”
We agree here.
Well the more accurate analogy would be if a farmer who lost his crops because of a storm killed the head of Deere with a manifesto about right to repair issues, and other farmers frustrated that they have to pay instead of being able to fix their own equipment (but not losing crops over it) said “yeah good he had it coming.”
Sure, but as I said, I think focusing on Mangione specifically is missing the point.
And, it’s not even about paying for the repair. There have been cases where a crop needed harvesting and Deere said “It’ll be three weeks, and no you can’t just do it yourself” IANAF but as I understand it, when the crop is ready and the weather is cooperating, it’s harvest time and missing your window is catastrophic.
We have Kaiser which is always at the top of the satisfaction polls, and rarely is anything denied. I think their rate is like 5% which might account for fraud.
Unsatisfied customer is a poor description. We have no choice but to be a customer. The influential members of this industry have made it this way. We all know people, or are people, who have metaphorically sat at their kitchen table desperately trying to figure out how to manage the disaster of their health care.
Not manage their health, how to manage their care without being driven homeless. That’s not simple dissatisfaction.
Oh, I’m certain that it shares reasons with Trump’s popularity, and also with Bernie’s.
If hell yes. Boy, was that a bad take.
Yeah, there’s a lot of that.
I think that would absolutely happen. That is, if a farmer killed the CEO of Deere and left a manifesto about right to repair, i do think other farmers would cheer. Whether or not they personally most crops. It’s the same kind of situation, even if it hasn’t (yet) happened to you, you worry about it.