# United **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284 "2017-04-12T02:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/1 "2017-04-12T02:11:34Z")
> **[United Airlines says controversial flight was not overbooked; CEO apologizes...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united-ceo-employees-followed-procedures-flier-belligerent/100317166/)** > > 'I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard,' United CEO Oscar Munoz told employees. > **[United CEO doubles down in email to employees, says passenger was 'disruptive...](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/united-ceo-passenger-disruptive-belligerent.html)** > > CEO Oscar Munoz doubled down on United's stance on removing an overbooked passenger from a United flight. > **[United CEO Munoz apologizes in response to dragged passenger](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/11/united-ceo-munoz-apologizes-in-response-to-dragged-passenger.html)** > > United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz on Tuesday issued an apology for the treatment of a passenger dragged from aboard one of its flights before takeoff on Sunday. There ought to be a law against forcibly removing a paid passenger from their seat unless they did something wrong other than refuse to be removed from their seat AFAICT United offered $800 and then stopped because the law allows them to forcibly remove passengers for less than that. Delta OTOH paid out over $11,000 to a family to voluntarily surrender their seats. > **[Why Delta Air Lines Paid Me $11,000 Not To Fly To Florida This Weekend](https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2017/04/09/why-delta-air-lines-paid-me-11000-not-to-fly-to-florida-this-weekend/#7bdce5da4de1)** > > Delta encountered historic travel delays this week — and some passengers profited by getting bumped. Here's how you can make money from the airlines, too. If the law is on their side in this matter, then I would suggest that the laws and regulations are being written by a captive regulators who are trying to get a job in the industry after they retire or from politicians whoa re looking for campaign donations. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/2 "2017-04-12T02:14:58Z")
I’m sorry, but we are going to need to remove you from this thread. You’ll be offered a voucher to start 4 other threads in the other forums of this MB. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/3 "2017-04-12T02:18:08Z")
There already is a thread, although not in the pit: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=823658](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=823658) ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/4 "2017-04-12T02:39:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sorry, but we are going to need to remove you from this thread. You’ll be offered a voucher to start 4 other threads in the other forums of this MB. dont do it, man! you hold your ground! the rest of us will video the beating, and gnash our teeth on social media! we’ve got your back! mc ps i think you can get 5 threads and an sdmb coffee mug! stay strong! ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/5 "2017-04-12T03:28:14Z")
Great. Now we’re delayed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/6 "2017-04-12T03:28:52Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > dont do it, man! you hold your ground! > the rest of us will video the beating, and gnash our teeth on social media! we’ve got your back! > > mc > > ps i think you can get 5 threads and an sdmb coffee mug! stay strong! Wait. There are SDMB coffee mugs?!?!?! I am just trying to get some of the folks who are defending this bullshit to come on over to the pit where I can tell them how I really feel. But seriously, are there really coffee mugs? ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/7 "2017-04-12T03:36:05Z")
The law is the law. United has every right to remove passengers. The passenger also disobeyed a police order so they had little choice but to forcibly remove him. It wasn’t pretty but I can’t of a whole lot of better options. I’m no defender of the airlines and I agree new laws need to be made but the fact is the gentleman was offered compensation and everyone would have been a little better off if he had just taken it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/8 "2017-04-12T03:39:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But seriously, are there really coffee mugs? yes, they’re over there {points to a table out in the cornfield} go ahead, take one, dont be afraid! mc ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/9 "2017-04-12T05:36:59Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > The law is the law. United has every right to remove passengers. The passenger also disobeyed a police order so they had little choice but to forcibly remove him. It wasn’t pretty but I can’t of a whole lot of better options. > > I’m no defender of the airlines and I agree new laws need to be made but the fact is the gentleman was offered compensation and everyone would have been a little better off if he had just taken it. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Since this is the pit, I’ll actually post what I wanted to say in the other thread. The law is the law is the way of fascism/authoritarianism. It would mean that even evil regimes are justified because they have laws saying they can do what they do. It’s fucking stupid. The law allows persecution of homosexuality in Russia. Does that make it okay? Hell no. There are arguments about when it’s best to fight the law. But this mindset that “following the law” is itself the right thing is ridiculous, and it’s weird that so many supposed “liberals” are pushing such an authoritarian ideal. The guy stood up against a bad law. In doing so, he can expect at most to be taken away. Not to be knocked unconscious to the point he was throwing up blood. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/10 "2017-04-12T06:14:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Since this is the pit, I’ll actually post what I wanted to say in the other thread. > > The law is the law is the way of fascism/authoritarianism. It would mean that even evil regimes are justified because they have laws saying they can do what they do. It’s fucking stupid. > > The law allows persecution of homosexuality in Russia. Does that make it okay? Hell no. > > There are arguments about when it’s best to fight the law. But this mindset that “following the law” is itself the right thing is ridiculous, and it’s weird that so many supposed “liberals” are pushing such an authoritarian ideal. > > The guy stood up against a bad law. In doing so, he can expect at most to be taken away. Not to be knocked unconscious to the point he was throwing up blood. i agree w everything you said, right up until the part i underlined. the guy was clearly not standing up against a bad law. he was either being selfish, elitist, or fearful depending on how you look at it. fortunately for him, there was also bad business policies and law enforcement tactics involved to take some of the heat off of him. mc ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/11 "2017-04-12T06:52:55Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > he was either being selfish, elitist, or fearful depending on how you look at it. I think you forgot “stubborn”. At least, that’s the reason\* I \*would have stayed seated. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/12 "2017-04-12T06:59:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Wait. There are SDMB coffee mugs?!?!?! And t-shirts. Got one myself, but I never wear it, cause it’s really ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/13 "2017-04-12T07:49:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The guy stood up against a bad law. The police having the authority to escort you off a property the owner of which doesn’t want you on is a “bad law”? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/14 "2017-04-12T07:54:56Z")
The police having the authority to use force to deny you a service you have paid for and are entitled to receive is definitely a bad law. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/15 "2017-04-12T08:00:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The police having the authority to use force to deny you a service you have paid for and are entitled to receive is definitely a bad law. How is this supposed to work? The airline was obviously of the belief, correctly or incorrectly, that the passenger wasn’t entitled to be on the plane. The police have no reasonable way to evaluate whether that belief is true. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/16 "2017-04-12T08:01:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The police having the authority to use force to deny you a service you have paid for and are entitled to receive is definitely a bad law. Even if it’s in the contract of carriage that you can be denied service if circumstances warrant? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/17 "2017-04-12T08:07:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Even if it’s in the contract of carriage that you can be denied service if circumstances warrant? That’s why I said it’s a bad law. Airline consumers deserve greater protection. Besides, there’s such a thing as basic human decency. If an organization screws up so badly that it can’t fix its own mess without using force on a person who’s just sitting there minding his own business, then maybe it should rethink how it does things. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/18 "2017-04-12T08:09:35Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > How is this supposed to work? The airline was obviously of the belief, correctly or incorrectly, that the passenger wasn’t entitled to be on the plane. If he wasn’t entitled to be there, then why did they allow him on in the first place? You can’t jusyt change your mind on a dime. The airline had an obligation toward its passengers; it can’t just suddenly decide that the obligation doesn’t exist if it happens to inconvenience it. That’s not how obligation works. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/19 "2017-04-12T08:12:16Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’m no defender of the airlines and I agree new laws need to be made but the fact is the gentleman was offered compensation and everyone would have been a little better off if he had just taken it. Sure, and if some couple is enjoying a romantic meal in my restaurant I can offer them a dollar to GTFO now. Everyone will be better off if they take the dollar and don’t make a scene. I don’t want to make my goons have to throw them through the window. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/20 "2017-04-12T08:15:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Even if it’s in the contract of carriage that you can be denied service if circumstances warrant? The contract doesn’t even matter at that stage. The police aren’t there to pick through the intricacies of contract law and research how federal courts have interpreted the word “boarding.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284.md?page=2)