# United **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284 "2017-04-12T02:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/41 "2017-04-12T12:24:21Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > i agree w everything you said, right up until the part i underlined. the guy was clearly not standing up against a bad law. Right. He was _sitting down_ against a bad law. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/42 "2017-04-12T12:49:19Z")
One law professor points out that United may not have been following the law at all. The rules for denying access to the plane are not the same as those for removing someone who has already boarded. [url=http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/43 "2017-04-12T12:50:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The law is the law is the way of fascism/authoritarianism. It would mean that even evil regimes are justified because they have laws saying they can do what they do. United is worse than Hitler! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/44 "2017-04-12T12:57:04Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > in that case it would be elitist prick. he felt that his obligations were more important than some other passenger - they should have to give up their seat, not him. > > mc Pretty sure “if I don’t get there, people might die” is \*actually \*more important than some other passenger’s super urgent marketing meeting or Easter vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/45 "2017-04-12T13:01:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Pretty sure “if I don’t get there, people might die” is \*actually \*more important than some other passenger’s super urgent marketing meeting or Easter vacation. There is no good to come from airlines evaluating passengers’ personal lives and bumping the person they deem to be the least important to their community. It would cause ten more scandals by the end of the year. Also, the idea that this is extra-scandalous because the guy is a doctor justifies gross dirt-digging like [this](http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/46 "2017-04-12T13:02:12Z")
The passenger missed a bet by not yelling “Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I’m being oppressed!” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/47 "2017-04-12T13:12:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > United is worse than Hitler! Thank you Sean Spicer. You can leave the podium now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/48 "2017-04-12T13:22:49Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It’s like how being arrested illegally doesn’t give you the right to resist arrest. > [@Alessan](#): > > Sure it does. That’s the essence of civil disobedience. Wrong. The essence of civil disobedience is to not cooperate with the arresting officials. Folks who participate in CD specifically do not resist arrest. They go limp, which is not the same thing at at all. I didn’t see enough of the video in this case to judge what the guy on the plane did, but “resisting arrest” is absolutely not part of Civil Disobedience. Perhaps you were thinking of Uncivil Disobedience. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/49 "2017-04-12T13:31:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wrong. The essence of civil disobedience is to not cooperate with the arresting officials. Folks who participate in CD specifically do not resist arrest. They go limp, which is not the same thing at at all. > > I didn’t see enough of the video in this case to judge what the guy on the plane did, but “resisting arrest” is absolutely not part of Civil Disobedience. Perhaps you were thinking of Uncivil Disobedience. Yup. Exactly this. Accepting punishment after breaking a law is what gives civil disobedience its moral force. Cases like this are borderline, of course, because there’s no law broken unless there’s _some_ resistence to the enforcing/arresting authority. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/50 "2017-04-12T13:42:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wrong. The essence of civil disobedience is to not cooperate with the arresting officials. Folks who participate in CD specifically do not resist arrest. They go limp, which is not the same thing at at all. > > I didn’t see enough of the video in this case to judge what the guy on the plane did, but “resisting arrest” is absolutely not part of Civil Disobedience. Perhaps you were thinking of Uncivil Disobedience. True - and I knew that, too. That said, based on my reading of the video, the guy in fact did _not_ resist arrest, but rather refused to cooperate, so my point still stands. Refusing to comply with the police while at the same time not actively resisting their actions is legitimate civil disobedience. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/51 "2017-04-12T13:48:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > True - and I knew that, too. > > That said, based on my reading of the video, the guy in fact did _not_ resist arrest, but rather refused to cooperate, so my point still stands. Refusing to comply with the police while at the same time not actively resisting their actions is legitimate civil disobedience. OK. It’s just that CD has such an elevated position in the pantheon of political action, I wanted to make sure it was not tarnished. Thanks for accepting the correction. Like I said, I didn’t see enough of the video to tell one way or the other, but what I did see seemed like he was not resisting, but being passive and forcing the cops to do all the work. Of course, this wasn’t exactly Selma, Alabama in the 1950s either. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/52 "2017-04-12T14:54:54Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Sure, and if some couple is enjoying a romantic meal in my restaurant I can offer them a dollar to GTFO now. Everyone will be better off if they take the dollar and don’t make a scene. > > I don’t want to make my goons have to throw them through the window. Not sure the restaurant example helps you because typically a restaurant will try and do something for the patron ie comp their meal, free drinks, gift certificate if there’s some sort of blowup, just like United tried ti do. My point is it’s not like the patron was told to get out and no compensation for his inconvenience was offered. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/53 "2017-04-12T15:12:00Z")
It reminds me so much of Rosa Parks-Remember when they picked her at random,offered her several hundred dollars, a meal and nice hotel room, and she told them to take someone else because she was more important, then started screaming as loud as she could when they tried to remove her? The similarities are absolutely astonishing! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/54 "2017-04-12T15:24:38Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > There is no good to come from airlines evaluating passengers’ personal lives and bumping the person they deem to be the least important to their community. It would cause ten more scandals by the end of the year. Or they could \ stop the greedy-ass practice of overbooking and avoid these issues altogether. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/55 "2017-04-12T15:27:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It reminds me so much of Rosa Parks-Remember when they picked her at random,offered her several hundred dollars, a meal and nice hotel room, and she told them to take someone else because she was more important, then started screaming as loud as she could when they tried to remove her? > The similarities are absolutely astonishing! Not that many similarities. The only one that I can really see is that the carrier resorted to calling the police to employ violence rather than figure a way to settle the issue themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/56 "2017-04-12T15:33:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not that many similarities. > > The only one that I can really see is that the carrier resorted to calling the police to employ violence rather than figure a way to settle the issue themselves. Have you or your relatives ever have occasion to call the police? If so, did you tell them to employ violence or intend for them to employ violence? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/57 "2017-04-12T15:43:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Or they could \ stop the greedy-ass practice of overbooking and avoid these issues altogether. I don’t believe it was actually overbooking. It was a flight crew that was deadheading. Someone, or ones, really dropped the ball in not alerting the gate agents that the crew would be bumping people. If they had, 4 passengers would have been bumped before getting on the plane. Still pretty crappy IMHO, but not nearly as bad as letting someone on and THEN bumping them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/58 "2017-04-12T16:00:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have you or your relatives ever have occasion to call the police? If so, did you tell them to employ violence or intend for them to employ violence? I have called the police on a few occasions. I was a manger at a fast food restaurant, and sometimes there were unruly customers. But, I did not call them because someone was taking up a table without eating, or refusing to leave at closing time, I only called them when a customer was creating an unsafe environment, with either threats of, or actual violence. In those cases, responding by asking for force to be employed on my behalf is reasonable. I most especially did not call the police because of a mistake that I or my company made, and were expecting a customer to make up for. Now, to be fair, there were occasions when people called the police on themselves, but that was because they were stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/59 "2017-04-12T16:03:20Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Not sure the restaurant example helps you because typically a restaurant will try and do something for the patron ie comp their meal, free drinks, gift certificate if there’s some sort of blowup, just like United tried ti do. > > My point is it’s not like the patron was told to get out and no compensation for his inconvenience was offered. I’m arguing against the point that if someone is offered any compensation they should be happy about it. Clearly he did not value the compensation more than his seat (if any was offered…I haven’t heard that mentioned in the reports I read). In terms of the restaurant, the restaurant can throw any person out any time without any compensation, just like on a plane. But you’d be rightly pissed if you’re enjoying a meal and for no apparent reason they want you out. And that’s a situation where there is no real inconvenience to you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284/60 "2017-04-12T16:13:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I have called the police on a few occasions. > > I was a manger at a fast food restaurant, and sometimes there were unruly customers. > > But, I did not call them because someone was taking up a table without eating, or refusing to leave at closing time, I only called them when a customer was creating an unsafe environment, with either threats of, or actual violence. In those cases, responding by asking for force to be employed on my behalf is reasonable… If someone refused to leave, did you offer them enough money to leave, or did you just sit there until he rambled off on his own? If it was the former then that was your decision to make(although I doubt most restaurateurs have followed this magnanimous route), but if it was the former, if you decided to just wait the customer out, then you must realize that airlines _absolutely do not have this option._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/united/784284.md?page=4)