# UnitedHealth warns it may exit Obamacare plans **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013 "2015-11-19T20:37:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/141 "2016-07-30T02:15:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Everything was peachy beforehand: 80% of Americans were satisfied with their insurance. > > If ACA fails, Democrats won’t get another bite at that apple until everyone who lived through this is long dead. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Did that poll include the opinions of people who were uninsured at the time? :dubious: > [@adaher](#): > > Majority rules. So then we should look at what the people that use the ACA are reporting now: > **[High satisfaction levels with Obamacare as 2017 prices emerge](https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/24/high-satisfaction-levels-with-obamacare-as-2017-prices-emerge.html)** > > Most customers said they got care they couldn't previously afford, and also were able to see doctors fairly quickly. > [@](#): > > A new survey of people who have purchased Obamacare insurance or enrolled in Medicaid shows relatively high levels of satisfaction with their coverage, as proposed insurance prices for 2017 start to come out. > > A total of 77 percent of people with private Obamacare plans and 88 percent of people on Medicaid said they are “very” or “somewhat satisfied” with their coverage, according to the Commonwealth Fund survey. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/142 "2016-07-30T02:54:14Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The way I think of it is as sharing, or equalizing, the risk. > > 100 guys all buy auto insurance. One of 'em gets in an accident, and gets money to pay for repairs or a new car. **It works, because no one of us, ahead of time, can possibly know which of us is going to need the money.** > > What many of us are mad at insurance companies for is cherry-picking their customers, such as **refusing to sell medical-insurance policies to people with higher risks, such as family history, previous conditions, and so on.** Instead of sharing or equalizing risk, they’ve moved on to maximizing profit, and that conflicts with the basic concept of risk pooling. The two parts I bolded are an important contradiction. It _doesn’t_ work if everyone knows which one of you is going to need the money. If Joe Bloggs is an impatient idiot who runs stop signs and texts while he drives, nobody else benefits from being stuck in a risk pool with him, because we all know he’ll be taking more than his fair share of the money because he’s an idiot who keeps crashing his car. Unless you charge him an equally massive amount of money for his preexisting condition of being a dumbass, the best possible thing for anyone not named Joe Bloggs to do is to leave the risk pool rather than continue to subsidise his incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/143 "2016-07-30T03:05:59Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The two parts I bolded are an important contradiction. It _doesn’t_ work if everyone knows which one of you is going to need the money. If Joe Bloggs is an impatient idiot who runs stop signs and texts while he drives, nobody else benefits from being stuck in a risk pool with him, because we all know he’ll be taking more than his fair share of the money because he’s an idiot who keeps crashing his car. Unless you charge him an equally massive amount of money for his preexisting condition of being a dumbass, the best possible thing for anyone not named Joe Bloggs to do is to leave the risk pool rather than continue to subsidise his incompetence. True…but our sense of fairness goes against leaving people to lose their homes because they can’t pay for surgery, just because their mother and grandmother had cancer, so there’s a known genetic predisposition…and so they can’t get insured. Refusing to insure people who are at a higher risk violates our democratic ideals. It’s penalizing someone for something they never actually did. Taking their money and then refusing to pay would, you might think, be absolutely illegal, but that’s happened too. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/144 "2016-07-30T04:00:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So then we should look at what the people that use the ACA are reporting now: > > [http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/24/high-satisfaction-levels-with-obamacare-as-2017-prices-emerge.html](http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/24/high-satisfaction-levels-with-obamacare-as-2017-prices-emerge.html) No, we should ask Americans overall what they think of ACA. Those paying the freight get a say as well as those benefitting. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/145 "2016-07-30T04:48:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Refusing to insure people who are at a higher risk violates our democratic ideals. It’s penalizing someone for something they never actually did. That’s not what “democratic” means. If you openly proposed legislation to expand single-payer health cover for the purpose of subsidising people who are at higher risk of health problems, and people supported it, that would be an act you can rightfully say is in tune with our democratic ideals. (and it would be legislation that I would support) Trying to sneak it in under a false name in a nine hundred page brick and voted into law by politicians who didn’t even read the thing, _that_ is what violating our democratic ideals looks like. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/146 "2016-07-30T05:05:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, we should ask Americans overall what they think of ACA. Those paying the freight get a say as well as those benefitting. I remember dealing with this issue before, what I found is that Conservative sources always forget to report that while most of the people are skeptical most do actually want to see the law either maintained or to modify it. Less than a majority do want to see the act completely repealed. > **[Which is more unpopular: Obamacare or repealing Obamacare?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/apr/21/democratic-national-committee/which-more-unpopular-obamacare-or-repealing-obamac/)** > > Searching for painted eggs. Brunch with the family. Heading to church dressed in Sunday best. Debating health care. Mayb > [@](#): > > “I think the two items show that while the law remains more opposed than supported, the idea of repealing (or repeal and replace) also lacks majority support,” said Charles Franklin, director of the Marquette Law School Poll. “In part this may reflect a lack of appetite for going through the entire process of legislating again, or perhaps concern that a replacement would be no better. It may also reflect the lack of specific proposals that would be part of a replacement.” > > “Without strongly formed opinions about alternatives, surveys are likely to be especially sensitive to question wording and the particular focus of a question.” > > We’ll throw one more poll in there, just for fun. According to the Pew Center for People and the Press, of the 53 percent of people who disapprove of the law, a majority — 56 percent — said lawmakers should still try to make it work, while just 36 percent said they should do what they can to ensure it fails. Another thing that me and many progressives noted, a good number of the people that oppose the ACA actually want to see something even better, skewing the numbers of people that oppose the ACA and many from the right wing media just think that it means that the people are opposing the intervention of the government in health care. Wrong. > **[Majority in U.S. Support Idea of Fed-Funded Healthcare System](https://news.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx)** > > Asked separately about three possible courses for the future of the Affordable Care Act, more Americans favor replacing it with federally funded health insurance for all Americans than favor either keeping it in place or repealing it. > [@](#): > > Americans express considerable support for the idea of replacing the ACA with a federally run national healthcare system, which is similar to the proposal championed by presidential candidate Sanders. To be sure, many Americans, primarily Democrats, also favor the idea of just keeping the ACA in place. But given a choice, those who favor both proposals come down on the side of the Sanders-type proposal. Four in 10 Republicans also favor the idea of a federally funded system. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/147 "2016-08-01T01:39:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Yes\*, isn’t that remarkable? > > Or … > > Is it possible - just possible - that perhaps you’re a guy who knows a smattering of technical insurance terms but no clear and broad understanding, let alone the ability to apply them in practical terms? Something to think about it. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. > > In any event, I think what I’ve said stands on its own and I don’t feel I need to add anything further. > > [\*FWIW, I’ve not said I work for an insurance company, and in actual fact I work for an employee benefits consulting firm.] More likely, I think you’re opining from the top of an ivory tower and you don’t really know how the broader world of insurance and risk works outside the redoubt of employee benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/148 "2016-08-02T17:52:04Z")
And now, Aetna: [Aetna latest insurer to question Obamacare’s future](http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/02/news/economy/aetna-obamacare/) > [@](#): > > Aetna (AET) said Tuesday it is canceling plans to expand into more states next year and will reassess its involvement in the 15 states where it currently offers coverage on the individual exchanges. It expects to lose $300 million (pre-tax) on its Obamacare business this year. > > “…in light of updated 2016 projections for our individual products and the significant structural challenges facing the public exchanges, we intend to withdraw all of our 2017 public exchange expansion plans, and are undertaking a complete evaluation of future participation in our current 15-state footprint,” said CEO Mark Bertolini in a second-quarter earnings statement. > > A growing number of insurers on the Obamacare exchanges are voicing concerns about the viability of the program as they run up big losses. Many say that their premiums were too low and didn’t cover the cost of care because their consumers are far sicker than anticipated. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/149 "2016-08-12T21:55:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > And now, Aetna: [Aetna latest insurer to question Obamacare’s future](http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/02/news/economy/aetna-obamacare/) Aetna’s stock price has more than tripled since ACA passed. According to [Senator Elizabeth Warren](https://www.facebook.com/senatorelizabethwarren/?fref=nf) Aetna’s threat to stop participating in ACA exchanges is just a blackmail-like ploy — they want DOJ to drop its antitrust objections to a proposed merger. Is Warren an authority whose opinion should be accepted without question? Of course not. But who is more trustworthy, Warren or Aetna executives? Only a fool would even ask the question. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/150 "2016-08-14T01:17:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Exactly. You can do single payer on top of the existing system but you can’t REPLACE private health insurance with single payer. I strongly disagree. Nobody will pay more for insurance than they have to, and private health insurance will cost more than single payer. As soon as most Americans actually have a choice between the two, there will not be enough demand for private health insurance to justify it existing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/151 "2016-08-15T12:53:07Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Aetna’s stock price has more than tripled since ACA passed. According to [Senator Elizabeth Warren](https://www.facebook.com/senatorelizabethwarren/?fref=nf) Aetna’s threat to stop participating in ACA exchanges is just a blackmail-like ploy — they want DOJ to drop its antitrust objections to a proposed merger. > > Is Warren an authority whose opinion should be accepted without question? Of course not. But who is more trustworthy, Warren or Aetna executives? Only a fool would even ask the question. Elizabeth Warren is an ideologue. She’s considered trustworthy by her fellow ideologues. Fact is that at this point every major carrier has announced that they’re losing money on the exchanges and are pulling back. The notion that it’s all some sort of bluff is well into wacky conspiracy theory territory. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/152 "2016-08-16T15:32:26Z")
Turns out Aetna wasn’t bluffing either: [Aetna will leave most Obamacare exchanges, projecting losses](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/16/aetna-pulls-back-from-the-obamacare-exchanges/) > [@](#): > > Aetna, the nation’s third largest health insurer, announced Monday night that it will dramatically pull back from the marketplaces set up by the Affordable Care Act, cutting its participation from 15 states to four next year. > > Aetna’s announcement is the latest signal by large insurers that they are struggling to make money in the marketplaces. > [@](#): > > Aetna’s announcement comes on the heels of an announcement by Anthem that, in a reversal of expectations, it is now projecting mid-single digit losses on the individual plans it sells on the exchanges. Humana said it would dial back its participation on the exchanges from 15 states to 11 earlier this month. UnitedHealth Group plans to remain on “three or fewer exchange markets,” its chief executive Stephen Hemsley said on an earnings call in July. Cigna has said that it is losing money on the exchanges, but the insurer is planning to expand its marketplace presence to three new states in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/153 "2016-08-16T21:00:56Z")
Yeah, I was about to post that in my thread over in elections. You’ll never see me feel sorry for a health insurance company (lol), but this _is_ unfortunate for people who will have reduced options next year. This is why, long term, these marketplaces will need to incorporate a public option so that there will always be at least one carrier in every part of the country. I do think that Aetna’s decision has more than a little to do with the DoJ lawsuit, however, given that the company was singing a different tune vis-a-vis the ACA not too long ago. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/154 "2016-08-16T21:06:34Z")
Analysts have suggested that it had to do with it but in the exact opposite manner as Warren suggested. Specifically, that Aetna wanted to pull back all along, but didn’t want to announce this while their merger application was still pending, for fear of ticking off the Obama administration. In any event, the emerging picture seems to be that the Blue Chip national insurers are all not doing well. The niche insurers who specialized in Medicaid and the like - with very narrow networks of low-cost providers - are the ones who are making it. That does not bode well for the future of the exchanges. The Obama administration is apparently concerned and looking to tweak things. Not sure how much flexibility they have, though. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/155 "2016-08-17T00:07:05Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > …This is why, long term, these marketplaces will need to incorporate a public option so that there will always be at least one carrier in every part of the country… I wonder if there are already zip codes now (or starting next year) where either only one company is offering plans, or where _nobody_ is offering plans? Does the penalty get waived in the latter case? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/156 "2016-08-17T00:29:27Z")
NPR said that there was one that will have no plans next year. I seem to remember the implication that there are already areas with only one plan now. I’m not sure if there will be a penalty or not. This is however, only exchange plans: customers would presumably still be able to purchase Obamacare-compliant insurance from non-exchange insurers. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/157 "2016-08-17T01:37:04Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > From a tactical position please let them pull out. From a political standpoint the idea of the ACA using private insurers was a sop to get the damn thing passed. If the majors pull out maybe we can transition to a proper single-payer plan and the large carriers can begin phasing out health insurance from their books. There’s more money in Life/Accident/Home, anyway. > [@2ManyTacos](#): > > … This is why, long term, these marketplaces will need to incorporate a public option so that there will always be at least one carrier in every part of the country … This is why it was so important to have a public option initially and such a travesty that it was dropped. Done correctly, it would have been a means of a natural progression toward a single-payer system that co-existed with the private system for those able and willing to pay for higher levels of coverage or faster access to elective services. If the efficiencies of single-payer created an environment in which private insurers just couldn’t compete, what can I say except that they wouldn’t be missed. Sadly, I also believe that both the fundamental concept of single-payer and the necessary regulatory infrastructure to allow it to operate efficiently are not achievable in the present political climate. That’s the world of Bernie Sanders and the sociopolitical values of non-US western democracies, not the world of Donald Trump or even that of Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/158 "2016-08-17T02:18:52Z")
I feel so sorry for them. [Aetna Reports a Dark Spot from Obamacare, but it’s Not the Whole Story](http://www.wsj.com/articles/aetna-profit-rises-38-1454326988). [Rising Premiums Appear to Have Had an Impact](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-28/aetna-posts-profit-that-tops-estimates-raises-2016-forecast). [United Healthcare is Doing Well, Too](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150416/NEWS/304169977). [They’re Not Really Giving Us the Whole Picture, are They](http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2016-07-19/unitedhealth-beats-street-2q-forecasts)? Greedy jerks. The public option is the only thing that will provide meaningful competition to insurance companies. I hope we get it soon and get insurance companies out of the picture as much as possible, but it will be a fight. They’ve been consolidating since the ACA passed. I believe they mean to become too big to fail, after the fashion of the big banks, to ensure their profits. [Committee for Economic Development Report](https://www.ced.org/blog/entry/top-healthcare-stories-for-2016-insurance-company-mergers). [Proposed Consolidations Could be Hazardous to Nation’s Health (Opinion Piece)](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20160521/magazine/305219929). ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/159 "2016-08-17T07:24:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I feel so sorry for them. > > [Aetna Reports a Dark Spot from Obamacare, but it’s Not the Whole Story](http://www.wsj.com/articles/aetna-profit-rises-38-1454326988). Oh noes, a corporation is making profits, can’t have that. Look, if the ACME company had an XYZ Widget division that was losing money with a negative 3-4% margin, ACME would drop that line of business as well. How is Aetna any different? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/160 "2016-08-17T08:00:00Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > One of the benefits of a single-payer system is that providers don’t have to learn the rules of submitting claims to 500 administrators. > > If we have fifty administrators, that’s an improvement, but it’s still fifty separate administrators with their own rules and guidelines, their own processing norms, and their own claims messages on the EOB.That all ends up costing money to the providers who have to program for those things. > > But if we have \*\*one \*\*administrator, with \*\*one \*\*set of rules, that’s an even bigger improvement, and a cost savings for providers. The way it works with Spain’s 17 is that each provider only submits claims to their local single-payer; the central exchange and bilateral agreements cover people who have been treated “away from home”. For example, distant Andalusia and Navarre share through the central system, but neighbors Aragon and Navarre have direct agreements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013.md?page=9)