# UnitedHealth warns it may exit Obamacare plans **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013 "2015-11-19T20:37:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/161 "2016-08-17T13:48:34Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Greedy jerks. > > The public option is the only thing that will provide meaningful competition to insurance companies. I hope we get it soon and get insurance companies out of the picture as much as possible, but it will be a fight. They’ve been consolidating since the ACA passed. I believe they mean to become too big to fail, after the fashion of the big banks, to ensure their profits. If the government takes complete control of healthcare, then maybe they can get at the root of the actual problem - the insane cost of healthcare itself. Aetna doesn’t set the cost of all the tests and procedures that make medical care so expensive in the first place. I wonder if many of the people railing against the insurance companies (not necessarily you) have ever seen a hospital bill. The insurance companies don’t generate these bills, to the best of my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/162 "2016-08-17T14:16:52Z")
Insurance companies might not generate the bills, but they’re still responsible for them. The cost of anything is what the market will bear. And what the bills actually say may or may not even be what the insurance company pays. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/163 "2016-08-17T15:00:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Insurance companies might not generate the bills, but they’re still responsible for them. The cost of anything is what the market will bear. And what the bills actually say may or may not even be what the insurance company pays. I get it, it’s just that if the government takes over healthcare, then those astronomical fees will not go to some insurance company, but right from the pocket of the US taxpayer. As a taxpayer, would you rather a (hypothetical - it’s been 30 years since I saw the 9 charge on a bill) Tylenol cost .05 or $15? Shouldn’t there be some sort of limit of how much can be charged in the first place? I feel that just blindly trusting the healthcare industry to charge whatever they want to is what causes the incredible cost of healthcare, not the insurance companies. Insurance companies can negotiate some of the charges on the bill _down_, they have for me. Not refusing to pay and leaving me holding the bag, but refusing to pay and inducing the healthcare system to charge less (actually just drop some items from the bill altogether). The tail is wagging the dog. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/164 "2016-08-17T15:53:23Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I wonder if there are already zip codes now (or starting next year) where either only one company is offering plans, or where _nobody_ is offering plans? Does the penalty get waived in the latter case? I know that, in Alabama, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama will be the only carrier offering plans in most, if not all, of the state. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/165 "2016-08-17T16:03:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Oh noes, a corporation is making profits, can’t have that. > > Look, if the ACME company had an XYZ Widget division that was losing money with a negative 3-4% margin, ACME would drop that line of business as well. > > How is Aetna any different? What’s different is, sick people aren’t widgets. Making profits on the state of out citizens’ health is obscene. Expecting people to “negotiate” their best price for health care as they’re being wheeled in for emergency heart surgery is idiotic and pitiless. It’s a shitty model for a health care system – unless you’re an insurance company and a a monopoly to boot, looking to maximize profits. **Duke of Rat** is right, it’s the **cost** of health care that isn’t being addressed. **Chronos** is also right, because health insurance companies absolutely do dictate what they must be paid in order to cover health care products/services, and you better believe profit is the reason why. I’d rather have the government setting health care standards and negotiating for best prices for what is customary and reasonable care on the basis of what makes the most sense in the interests of the tax payers, than health insurance and pharmaceutical companies deciding what’s profitable enough. We do it now with Medicare, and no reason that model can’t be moved into a general national health care system. I’m no economist, but Econ 101 teaches that some public interests are inelastic and don’t lend themselves well to a capitalist, for-profit system. Health care is such a one. The sooner we get profits out of health care and move to a single payer national health care system, the better. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/166 "2016-08-17T17:58:58Z")
Looks like they just threw a [tantrum](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/17/490202346/aetna-ceo-to-justice-department-block-our-deal-and-well-drop-out-of-exchanges). Or as the article concluded “Now, the company appears to be taking its ball and going home.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/167 "2016-08-17T19:29:48Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > What’s different is, sick people aren’t widgets. Making profits on the state of out citizens’ health is obscene. Expecting people to “negotiate” their best price for health care as they’re being wheeled in for emergency heart surgery is idiotic and pitiless. It’s a shitty model for a health care system – unless you’re an insurance company and a a monopoly to boot, looking to maximize profits. No, sick people aren’t widgets, but so what? Do you think that the government should force insurance companies to continue a line of business in which they’re losing money? Even the most expansive view of the Commerce Clause doesn’t require _that_. Corporations (including insurance companies) exist to make profits. Shocking, I know. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/168 "2016-08-17T20:24:09Z")
If insurance companies raise their rates to stay in business, then they are Big Heartless Corporations. If they can’t turn a profit and go broke, there’s one less option available. But they could leave their rates as-is and still turn a profit if the bills presented to them by the healthcare industry weren’t so astronomical to start with. It works with widgets, too. If your widget costs twice as much as your customer can afford to pay, what could be better than the government stepping up and saying send us your bills, we have a whole list of taxpayers we can tap to pay you. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/169 "2016-08-17T20:38:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, sick people aren’t widgets, but so what? Do you think that the government should force insurance companies to continue a line of business in which they’re losing money? Even the most expansive view of the Commerce Clause doesn’t require _that_. Nope. I think they should be eliminated as the primary source of health care coverage. Funny; you don’t see any of them asking for that. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Corporations (including insurance companies) exist to make profits. Shocking, I know. :rolleyes: There are many models around the world that work just fine without insurance companies being the primary players in providing health care for their people. You don’t seem able to wrap your head around that. Health insurance companies can always offer their product for profit and a price that people are willing to pay, and I have no issues with that **as an option**. It’s done in many countries that offer single payer, allowing those who subscribe to “jump the line” or cover extra services if they wish. But the right of basic health care is guaranteed to all by way of government-run health care. Makes a lot more sense to me than how we do it. Canada does it well. So do France, Spain, Germany, Australia, the UK, Iceland, The Netherlands, Sweden and New Zealand. There are problems, no question. But ask any citizen of those nations if they would trade their access to health care for ours, even in exchange for a reduced tax rate. I’ve never met one yet. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/170 "2016-08-17T22:19:58Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There are many models around the world that work just fine without insurance companies being the primary players in providing health care for their people. You don’t seem able to wrap your head around that. Of course I can wrap my head around it (thanks for the unnecessary jab in Great Debates), but I don’t agree with your post. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/171 "2016-08-18T14:02:31Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Looks like they just threw a [tantrum](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/17/490202346/aetna-ceo-to-justice-department-block-our-deal-and-well-drop-out-of-exchanges). > > Or as the article concluded “Now, the company appears to be taking its ball and going home.” ISTM that that’s completely indeterminate as to whether the proper business decision would have been to stay and they’re now leaving as a “tantrum”, or whether the sound business decision was to leave and they offered to stay as a bribe. (This is all disregarding the possibility that the merger may have had an actual business impact on the decision.) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/172 "2016-08-22T22:50:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I wonder if there are already zip codes now (or starting next year) where either only one company is offering plans, or where _nobody_ is offering plans? Does the penalty get waived in the latter case? Well that [answers](http://www.businessinsider.com/pinal-county-arizona-has-no-obamacare-insurers-2016-8?pundits_only=0&get_all_comments=1&no_reply_filter=1) that question. Pinal County isn’t a rural backwater either; it’s part of the Phoenix metro area. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/173 "2016-08-23T14:29:36Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > In any event, the emerging picture seems to be that the Blue Chip national insurers are all not doing well. The niche insurers who specialized in Medicaid and the like - with very narrow networks of low-cost providers - are the ones who are making it. Here’s the NYT on the subject: [Think Your Obamacare Plan Will Be Like Employer Coverage? Think Again](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/upshot/think-your-obamacare-plan-will-be-like-employer-coverage-think-again.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > But six years into the health law, the reality is that a typical Obamacare plan looks more like Medicaid, only with a high deductible. The typical marketplace plan covers a small number of low-cost doctors and hospitals, and offers fewer frills than employer plans. The recent high-profile exits of many of the national insurers from markets around the country will only heighten the shift. > [@](#): > > When the first Obamacare plans were released for 2014, many experts and customers were surprised at how many featured very limited numbers of doctors and hospitals. > > Three years later, and the trend has only intensified. Many of the companies providing employer-based coverage, like UnitedHealth Group, Aetna and Humana, which tended to offer broad networks, have been exiting the markets. > > Although the local Blue Cross plans largely remain, many are sharply narrowing the networks offered by their exchange plans. The other insurers are either local plans that are often tied to a particular health system or a company that specializes in Medicaid patients. One point the article missed is that it’s not just a matter of which plans enrollees are choosing but which enrollees are choosing which plans. The real problem is not that “enrollees” like narrow-network plans - if that were the case, then all to the good. The issue seems to be that low cost enrollees tend to prefer the narrow-network plans, while higher cost enrollees gravitate to the wide network plans, which is why the former tend to be making money and the latter tend to be losing it. And this means that the segment of the market that wants better plans, and the segment that serves them, is getting squeezed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/174 "2018-07-07T01:00:00Z")
[Insurers are expanding their presence on Obamacare exchanges.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/06/politics/obamacare-insurers/index.html) > [@](#): > > Now, insurers are entering or returning to at least a dozen states, while others are expanding their presence in the states in which they operate. And last year’s worries that some Obamacare enrollees could be left stranded have not resurfaced. > > “This is a complete 180 from where were this time last year,” said Cynthia Cox, director for the Kaiser Family Foundation’s Program for the Study of Health Reform and Private Insurance. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/175 "2018-07-07T11:03:44Z")
It makes it challenging for people to dance on Obamacare’s grave when it keeps on going, no matter how much the Trump Administration tries to sabotage it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/176 "2018-07-08T14:26:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It makes it challenging for people to dance on Obamacare’s grave when it keeps on going, no matter how much the Trump Administration tries to sabotage it. I admire optimism but I’m afraid here it’s unfounded. The latest [Trump move against Obamacare](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-administration-takes-another-major-swipe-at-the-affordable-care-act/2018/07/07/0f1ff4c4-821f-11e8-b851-5319c08f7cee_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9a45177d6a3b) removes a major motive for insurers to insure the unhealthy. Expect insurers to head for the exits in droves. If I understand the article, insurers are even being denied reimbursements already due for past costs. How is this even remotely legal?(\*) Perhaps someone should start a GD thread to learn how “conservatives” view sabotage through executive actions like this. [Is the following excerpt too long for copyright compliance? How about if I accompany it with advertisement: _ **Read the Washington Post, one of the best American newspapers fighting strongly against the unfolding tragedy of Trumpism.** _] (\* - The article implies that Trumpists are using the confusion caused by two conflicting court rulings as an excuse for sabotage.) > [@](#): > > The Trump administration took another major swipe at the Affordable Care Act, halting billions of dollars in annual payments required under the law to even out the cost to insurers whose customers need expensive medical services. > > In a rare Saturday afternoon announcement, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said it will stop collecting and paying out money under the ACA’s “risk adjustment” program, drawing swift protest from the health insurance industry. > … Federal health officials are required each year to calculate which insurers with relatively low-cost consumers must chip in to a fund, and which ones with more expensive customers are owed money. This idea of pooling risk has had significant practical effects: encouraging insurers to participate in the insurance marketplaces the ACA created for Americans who cannot get affordable health benefits through a job. > > … The suspension of these payments is the most recent maneuver by the Trump administration to undercut the health-care law that President Trump has vowed since his campaign to demolish. A Republican-led Congress last year failed to repeal much of the ACA. The administration has been taking steps to dismantle it through executive powers. > Last year, health officials halved the length of the annual sign-up period for Americans to buy ACA health plans and also slashed by 90 percent the federal funds for advertising and other outreach efforts to urge people to enroll. Last October, the president ended another important subsidy to insurers: cost-sharing reduction payments, which cushioned them from the law’s requirement to provide discounts on deductibles and other out-of-pocket costs to low-income customers. > > … > Two major insurers’ trade groups immediately decried the move. > “Risk adjustment is a mandatory program under federal law,” said Scott Serota, president of the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association. “Without a quick resolution . . . this action will significantly increase 2019 premiums for millions of individuals and small business owners. . . . It will undermine Americans’ access to affordable coverage, particularly for those who need medical care the most.” > Matt Eyles, president of America’s Health Insurance Plans, noted in a statement that the timing of this latest move could be particularly disruptive, because this is the season during which insurers around the country decide whether to take part in ACA marketplaces for 2019 and, if so, what rates to charge. “This decision . . . will create more market uncertainty and increase premiums for many health plans,” Eyles said. Whatever the original faults of ACA might have been, the Republicans are responsible for 100% of problems with ACA going forward. Too bad the American public is too poorly informed to even understand this. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/177 "2018-07-08T18:17:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It makes it challenging for people to dance on Obamacare’s grave when it keeps on going, no matter how much the Trump Administration tries to sabotage it. Not _THAT_ challenging; they just need to jitterbug, instead of waltz… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/178 "2018-07-08T18:32:22Z")
It’s my understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, but the money for this program that the Trump team is now not collecting, isn’t even tax dollars-- it’s money that the insurers pool themselves. Aside from petty sabotage, is there any fiscal reason the admin could give to justify ending this? Again, looking for something that doesn’t involved the word “Obama.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/179 "2018-07-08T18:49:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Not _THAT_ challenging; they just need to jitterbug, instead of waltz… I might just stand there barefoot and let my toes fondle the dirt. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013/180 "2018-07-09T11:48:45Z")
It still sickens me that the quality of our healthcare comes down to whether a bunch of old rich guys can make more money out of our misery or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealth-warns-it-may-exit-obamacare-plans/738013.md?page=10)