# UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[breaking news: 2024-12-04\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [December 4, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159 "2024-12-04T16:11:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/203 "2024-12-05T18:37:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > He could have also been using it in the sense of “depositions” in the pre-trial process: one deposes a witness, putting them to questioning by a lawyer, which takes time and money to defend. Hard to see how that definition of “depose” makes sense in this situation, though. This is clearly a guy who’s not interested in proper court procedures any more. The “overthrow” definition, on the other hand, has a pretty clear application. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/204 "2024-12-05T18:41:37Z")
The irony of this guy listing those things as bullet points… /s ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/205 "2024-12-05T18:42:48Z")
If he was quoting from the book title, he could have confused “defend” with “depose” “Delay, deny, depose” works. “Depose” in the sense of “overthrow” doesn’t work with delay and deny. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/206 "2024-12-05T19:01:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “Depose” in the sense of “overthrow” doesn’t work with delay and deny. Unless there’s an implied switch of subject in that phrase… “You delay, you deny… I depose.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/207 "2024-12-05T19:34:44Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Unless there’s an implied switch of subject in that phrase… > > “You delay, you deny… I depose.” This seems like the most obviously correct assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/208 "2024-12-05T19:36:51Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I did see that $120 mil was collective & most of it was attributed to the chairman; only about $15 mil was from options that he sold (& his salary was $9.9 mil last year; so while it’s life changing to most people it only a nice amount to him) Oh, well then, forget I said anything. Defrauding $15 million is barely criminal at all. Akin to jaywalking, if even that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/209 "2024-12-05T20:11:56Z")
I’m hesitant to enter this thread, but the discussion of “suppressor” and its being responsible for _jams_ (or possibly _misfires_) has piqued my curiosity. Could someone please give me a quick primer on what exactly happens when a suppressor interferes with the smooth operation of a firearm? I’m wondering if correcting the problem results in unfired ammunition being manually ejected, and if so, what happened to those rounds? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/210 "2024-12-05T20:16:29Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > in midtown Manhattan in broad daylight I am not sure what the exact definition of “broad daylight” is, but this does not seem to fit, based on the images I have seen. Morning twilight, maybe. And, quite honestly, being shot in a quiet, secluded place does not seem any less “chilling” that being shot on the sidewalk. Anywhere you feel safe is a disturbing place to get murdered. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/211 "2024-12-05T20:16:57Z")
There have been a couple of excellent explanations already. Scroll back. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/212 "2024-12-05T20:27:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m hesitant to enter this thread, but the discussion of “suppressor” and its being responsible for _jams_ (or possibly _misfires_) has piqued my curiosity. Could someone please give me a quick primer on what exactly happens when a suppressor interferes with the smooth operation of a firearm? It’s not that the suppressor would interfere, it’s that they are often used with lower power cartridges to improve the performance of it (less noise to suppress in the first place). Since they are lower power, they don’t have enough energy to cycle the action properly. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m wondering if correcting the problem results in unfired ammunition being manually ejected, and if so, what happened to those rounds? Often it does, as the person may cycle the action more than once when trying to clear the jam. Three un-fired rounds were dropped at the scene and picked up by the investigators. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/213 "2024-12-05T20:27:51Z")
According to a SEAL, > A professional killer would have installed a “booster” between the muzzle and the silencer to ensure his 9-mm semi-automatic pistol ejected a spent round and loaded the next. > > Someone more adept would also have stepped closer to the unsuspecting health insurance CEO Brian Thompson outside a midtown Manhattan hotel at 6:45 am Wednesday morning. A trained killer would then have fired either a shot at his head or several closely grouped bullets into the middle of his back, in the center mass “kill zone.” > **[The Crucial Clue That Shows UnitedHealthcare CEO Killer Is Not a Trained...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-crucial-clue-that-shows-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killer-is-not-a-trained-assassin/)** > > “Not a real pro. Just a willing assassin, which is rare these days,” a former Navy SEAL told The Daily Beast. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/214 "2024-12-05T20:33:13Z")
I will jump in about suppressors and jamming. I mentioned previously about a suppressor adding mass to the barrel of a semiautomatic pistol. In a typical larger caliber pistol, the barrel stays locked to the slide as the slide goes backwards. After a slight backwards movement, the barrel disconnects from the slide. The disconnection may be accomplished a few different ways. For example, the barrel may hit a small block with a slope on it that causes the barrel to tilt slightly and drop some lugs down and disconnect so the slide can continue backwards. The purpose of the mechanism is to allow the pressure in the barrel to drop slightly before the slide extracts and ejects the fired cartrdige case. But adding mass to the barrel can throw all this out of whack. It takes more energy to move the barrel (because it’s now heavier) and so the cycling of the slide may be affected. One common result is that the cartridge case is not full extracted and ejected. Or the slide doesn’t go back far enough to pick up a new cartridge from the magazine. A common solution to this problem is to change the recoil spring so the slide and barrel cycle properly. But then the pistol may not cycle properly when the suppressor is removed. And, as others have pointed out, you ideally want subsonic ammunition if you want less noise. Again, subsonic ammunition (which usually uses heavier bullets when compared to normal ammunition) may cause the pistol not cycle properly or completely. When the pistol doesn’t cycle, a properly trained person will clear the pistol’s action. This is often done by sweeping the hand over the top of the slide to clear “stovepiped” cartridge cases and then cycling the slide. When someone is using a high-capacity pistol, it may be that they simply cycle the slide twice to make sure they have a fresh cartridge properly seated in the chamber. Cycling twice usually causes the fired cartridge case AND an unfired cartridge to be ejected. With a high-capacity pistol (say, 15 to 17 rounds), who cares if you waste a couple rounds if you only need a few to actually fire? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/215 "2024-12-05T20:33:28Z")
I have zero idea who the killer is and what (apparently) his motivation was, but “professional” can easily mean as little as “your cousin’s cousin’s brother-in-law’s ex’s new boyfriend who’s a bit of a ‘Soldier of Fortune’ guy and who’ll do it for two grand.” It really is a continuum, but it basically just means somebody who did the job for a paycheck. Doesn’t _have to be_ Jason Bourne, “Day of the Jackal,” or a Navy SEAL gone rogue 😉 ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/216 "2024-12-05T20:54:58Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Doesn’t _have to be_ Jason Bourne, “Day of the Jackal,” or a Navy SEAL gone rogue Agree, and this is what I was saying upthread. The shooting part was probably the easiest part - there are millions of people in this country adept with handguns - the getaway is where too many things can go wrong, and in this case they all went right. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/217 "2024-12-05T21:03:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I am not sure what the exact definition of “broad daylight” “Broad daylight” is sort of an idiom - it doesn’t necessarily refer to the actual amount of light but more to the likelihood of being seen , which is greater at 6:45 am than it would have been at 3 am. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/218 "2024-12-05T21:06:08Z")
By any reasonable definition as far as this thread goes, a professional means a hitman (of any gender) who does this for a living. I’m not a professional baker because my mom paid me to make a cake one time. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/219 "2024-12-05T21:12:43Z")
I’ve watched years of Forensic Files (just so you don’t have to!) - There is one security camera in the US for every four people - A facial recognition database - A shoe sole recognition database - Fingerprint database - Every spent cartridge scratches and firing pin stamp is in a database - DNA database, searchable by cousins DNA - Software that can reconstruct a face based on DNA - Software that recognizes unique body shape and movement Unless the killer escaped into a surfacing Chinese submarine in the Hudson, he only has a small chance of escape ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/220 "2024-12-05T21:13:09Z")
A “professional” hitman would have taken one shot and departed. This person wanted to send a message (as was carved into the rounds) and so, fired several times. I am not so sure one could pay a hitman to include additional text in the hit. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/221 "2024-12-05T21:15:26Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Because having it on you kind of obviates the point of having a burner phone? Having it on you is pretty damning evidence, no matter what steps you took to distance yourself from its purchase. Leave the phone take the cannoli > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And there’s a third, very small circle of people who work as professional assassins. And there is a forth larger circle of people who aren’t professional assassins but are smart enough, meticulous enough and good enough with guns to carry this off. Its just a question of conditional probability. Most professional assassins will pull off a murder that looks like this, while most disgruntled people won’t. But there are a whole lot more disgruntled people than there are professional assassins, so even if it looks professional there may be better than even odds that it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/222 "2024-12-05T21:21:08Z")
You need to activate a burner phone by calling in from a traceable phone. Even a chain of burners activating each other will lead to one. Ask the phone store or a friend to use their phone? They don’t want to be an accessory to a crime. Ask a total stranger on the street to use their phone? That might work, but you need to do it where there’s no security cameras. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159.md?page=12)