# UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[breaking news: 2024-12-04\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [December 4, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159 "2024-12-04T16:11:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/243 "2024-12-05T22:00:51Z")
I think that _most_ reasons for professional hit are contraindicated by the message. If it were an organization that feels wronged, they’d want to send a message of “don’t fuck with us”, and obscuring who “us” is would not help with that. So I agree with the people who think it’s most likely a lone and disgruntled, yet competent, actor. The only other option that makes sense, more complex and thus less likely, would be someone who has a _direct_ monetary interest in his death and wants to redirect suspicion, but that eliminates most people who would hire a killer. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/244 "2024-12-05T22:05:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Permanently absconding to a no-extradition foreign country isn’t as easy as it sounds, particularly if you don’t speak the language and have no means of support. Most seem to find it far easier to hang out at home and hope they’re never discovered. Very possibly. But of course he could always head up your way–the language barrier could be overcome after watching a few YouTube clips of SCTV’s Great White North sketches. (!) > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Correction - burner phones can be activated online. But that still leaves a trail via the IP address. Public libraries. Available computers, and not much in the way of surveillance cameras (the libraries lack the funding). ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/245 "2024-12-05T22:09:38Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > > > Correction - burner phones can be activated online. But that still leaves a trail via the IP address. > > Public libraries. Available computers, and not much in the way of surveillance cameras (the libraries lack the funding). Or just a VPN. Plenty of folks have those now. (ETA I checked, law enforcement can backtrack that with a court order, so never mind) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/246 "2024-12-05T22:13:04Z")
Or, it could be a stolen phone or one he picked up at a party or something. Perhaps even one he “borrowed” from an acquaintance, as a means of hiding himself in the foeground. I mean, honestly, who forgets their personal phone? It makes no sense, and this person does not seem careless. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/247 "2024-12-05T22:13:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Maybe he had to get a cheap one because he didn’t have a lot of money due to onerous medical debt? Or it was a disposable weapon, rather like a burner cell phone. “Leave the gun, take the cannoli.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/248 "2024-12-05T22:14:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This may well lead to a tip from someone who recognizes him. It feels like they’re closing in. On social media, at least, most people seem to be very sympathetic to the shooter, especially considering how it looks like this may have been revenge for denied treatment that cost the life of a loved one. I wonder if that might lead people to conveniently “forget” that they know someone who looks like the guy in that picture. If that does turn out to be his motive and he gets caught, finding an impartial jury might well be impossible. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/249 "2024-12-05T22:27:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If that does turn out to be his motive and he gets caught, finding an impartial jury might well be impossible. That’s typical of the kind of hyperbolic nonsense that circulates on social media. Regardless of how people feel about private health insurers – and some are in favour of it – in the final analysis only a psychopath would really believe that a CEO of such deserves to be killed. What someone says on Twitter is not an accurate reflection of what they would do in the cold light of reality in a jury room. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/250 "2024-12-05T22:32:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The cops have a smudged fingerprint from the water bottle, but haven’t been able to unlock the phone yet. DNA or fingerprints aren’t going to do any good unless he’s already in a data base- and most people aren’t. Maybe they could get some sort of match if he or a relative had a prior conviction that involved collecting DNA - but otherwise? Let’s just put it this way. I had one of those tests done, and I have one match who could be my first cousin’s daughter, my second cousin, my half-first cousin or my parent’s first cousin. I know her, but there are probably over 100 people in those categories. Next match after that is most likely my parent’s second cousin (although there are other possibilities). You could show him a photo of me- and he would have no idea who I was. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/251 "2024-12-05T22:33:52Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > NYC is so chock full of immigrants from far-away lands that it’s theoretically entirely possible that somebody wasn’t that worried about getting caught because, once paid, they could go ‘home’ and live a normal life forever and ever, particularly if ‘home’ happened to _be_ a non-extradition country. So, another baseless speculation: while I think there is zero chance that Trump is connected to it, there is a world leader who is interested in exacerbating divisions in the United States, who has employed all sorts of underhanded propaganda techniques to further that goal, who has espionage history, and who has employed assassination. It would not be totally shocking to find Putin’s hand in this deed. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/252 "2024-12-05T22:39:38Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > DNA or fingerprints aren’t going to do any good unless he’s already in a data base- and most people aren’t. Didn’t the Golden State Killer get caught because one of his third cousins did a 23AndMe test that indicated they were a relative of his? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/253 "2024-12-05T22:47:40Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > DNA or fingerprints aren’t going to do any good unless he’s already in a data base- and most people aren’t. I was going to say that but then I realized that I had to do finger prints for my TSA pre check and a thumbprint at some point for my CA drivers license (they didn’t require it when I first got it but at some point I had to to renew). In my case my mom and sister stupidly did 23andme. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/254 "2024-12-05T22:53:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Didn’t the Golden State Killer get caught because one of his third cousins did a 23AndMe test that indicated they were a relative of his? They used like a dozen distant relatives to make a family tree. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/255 "2024-12-05T22:57:28Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > > > Correction - burner phones can be activated online. But that still leaves a trail via the IP address. > > Public libraries. Available computers, and not much in the way of surveillance cameras (the libraries lack the funding). Possible, if you lift someone’s library card (which they don’t report as missing like credit cards). ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/256 "2024-12-05T23:17:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Didn’t the Golden State Killer get caught because one of his third cousins did a 23AndMe test that indicated they were a relative of his? They matched it to a relative who did a commercial DNA test - but I couldn’t find anything more specific than “a distant relative” which for all I know could be a first cousin once-removed. The police could maybe find a third cousin- but it would take weeks, not days. There will most likely be dozens of possibilities and the police would have to build a whole family tree to even find the possibilities. And then try to narrow it down - which if the person lived within driving or commuter train distance of NYC is going to be very hard and even more so if the family is from that area. The photo might help, if it’s not too distant -if you showed me a photo of my first cousin once removed, I’d recognize him. Second cousin, probably. Third cousin- not a chance. I don’t even know if someone could build a family tree based on my DNA matches. The parent’s first cousin and parent’s second cousin aren’t even related to each other. It’s going to take a lot of luck in addition to work to identify someone based solely on a commercial DNA match. Of course it’s going to happen sometimes - but it really is luck. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/257 "2024-12-05T23:22:53Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Correction - burner phones can be activated online. Getting a stranger to call your phone would be a piece of cake. Plant yourself on a sidewalk bench, rooting through a backpack. “Excuse me, can you do me a favor? I know my phone’s in here but I can’t find it. Can you call it please? This is the number.” Most people would help without a second thought. Yes, you’re showing your face to them, but if you wait a couple days after, memory will fade. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/258 "2024-12-05T23:25:48Z")
As I mentioned above, you have to do that outside of surveillance cameras. Possible, but less so every day ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/259 "2024-12-05T23:40:16Z")
New detail from CNN: the killer checked into the hostel on November 30th using a fake New Jersey driver’s license. They also think they have CCTV of him on his bike leaving Central Park via 77th St, without his backpack, and they’re searching the park for it but they haven’t found it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/260 "2024-12-05T23:43:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > On social media, at least, most people seem to be very sympathetic to the shooter, especially considering how it looks like this may have been revenge for denied treatment that cost the life of a loved one. I wonder if that might lead people to conveniently “forget” that they know someone who looks like the guy in that picture. “UHC didn’t get prior approval before requesting this information…” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/261 "2024-12-05T23:44:26Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > I’m wondering if correcting the problem results in unfired ammunition being manually ejected, and if so, what happened to those rounds? > > Often it does, as the person may cycle the action more than once when trying to clear the jam. **Three un-fired rounds were dropped at the scene and picked up by the investigators.** Ah, thank you. I was under the impression that they had only recovered three shell casings. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/262 "2024-12-05T23:44:52Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I don’t even know if someone could build a family tree based on my DNA matches. The parent’s first cousin and parent’s second cousin aren’t even related to each other. It’s going to take a lot of luck in addition to work to identify someone based solely on a commercial DNA match. Of course it’s going to happen sometimes - but it really is luck. With the Golden State killer they built a family tree based on a lot of relatives. They had a few dozen possibilities and took weeks to eliminate all but a small few based on age and location. Since it was a cold case they had the luxury of time. When they narrowed it down to him (or maybe him and a couple of others), they surveilled him and got some DNA from a doorknob or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159.md?page=14)