# UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in Manhattan \[breaking news: 2024-12-04\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [December 4, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159 "2024-12-04T16:11:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/807 "2024-12-14T16:54:05Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > Who is Jesus in this scenario? Luigi? In the sense that both Jesus and Luigi were criminals. Not making a comparison between Jesus and Mangione; just that they were both wanted by authorities and were turned in. The point of the joke is that the McDonald’s employee and Judas informed the authorities with the expectation of receiving a fat paycheck. Judas actually got paid. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/808 "2024-12-14T17:13:05Z")
One other difference: Judas betrayed a friend and a bond of trust. There’s no such expectation of a random citizen reporting the sighting of a random criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/809 "2024-12-14T17:18:49Z")
News item: Florida woman charged with making terroristic threats to health insurance company. Judge sets bail at $100,000. 42 year old mother of three has never been in trouble with the law before. > [@](#): > > The judge set her bail at $100,000, citing “the status of our country at this point”. > > Ms Boston appeared to gasp in response to the judge’s decision. > **[Woman charged with threatening healthcare firm by using CEO killer's words](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czenlg5d5rjo.amp)** > > Authorities say she echoed words connected to the murder when she allegedly said "delay, deny, depose, you people are next". ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/810 "2024-12-14T18:10:25Z")
Saw where someone claimed to have received this in email > [@Peak Design Founder & CEO](#): > > You may be aware that an Everyday Backpack made by Peak Design was worn during the New York City shooting last week. Some of you have asked what our policies are around customer privacy, so I wanted to lay that out: > > - Peak Design has not provided customer information to the police and would only do so under the order of a subpoena. > > - We cannot associate a product serial number with a customer unless that customer has voluntarily registered their product on our site. > > - Serializing our products allows us to track product issues and in some cases quarantine stock if a defect is found. > > - The serial numbers on our V1 Everyday Backpacks were not unique or identifying. They were lot numbers used to track batch production units. We did not implement unique serial numbers until V2 iterations of our Everyday Backpack. > > - If you do choose to register a Peak Design product, and it is lost or stolen, you can reach out to our Customer Service team and have your registration erased, so the bag is not traceable back to you. > > We take our **customer privacy** seriously. > > There is misinformation being shared on social media that has triggered many serious threats for the safety of not only me, but our employees as well. I ask that you please consider the facts we are providing here and continue to instill trust in the Peak Design brand. > > **Peter Dering** > **Peak Design Founder & CEO** ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/811 "2024-12-14T18:35:03Z")
Jeez people are stupid assholes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/812 "2024-12-14T22:16:02Z")
That’s a really bizarre way of defining first-degree murder. The usual definition in most jurisdictions is that it’s premeditated. I don’t know about New York state specifically, but maximum penalties for second-degree murder are often similar to those for first-degree, so I still think this guy is going to get 25 years to life. > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Simply walking up and shooting someone must not count as in the commission on another felony. I suspect they’re referring to a murder committed in the course of something like an armed robbery. Apparently a simple assassination doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/813 "2024-12-14T22:33:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I wonder why 2nd degree instead of 1st? Okay, I’ve probably told this anecdote before, but here goes. When [Bernhard Goetz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting) killed four people on a subway, he was charged with attempted murder and some other things, but not first-degree murder. I was in the eighth grade, and I asked the social studies teacher, “He looked one of them in the eye and said ‘You don’t look hurt enough.’ How is that not first-degree murder?” “Because in New York State, it’s only Murder One if you kill a cop or a prison guard…Yeah, I agree. Between this and Son of Sam, and John Lennon being killed, and that punk rocker who killed his girlfriend, a lot of people are calling for that law to be changed.” And it still hasn’t. Go figure, as we said in the '80s. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/814 "2024-12-14T23:13:59Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > When [Bernhard Goetz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting) killed four people on a subway, he was charged with attempted murder and some other things, but not first-degree murder. Probably because none of his victims died. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/815 "2024-12-14T23:28:36Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > a lot of people are calling for that law to be changed.” Why? The name doesn’t effect anything. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/816 "2024-12-14T23:47:23Z")
And it barely affects the sentence - first degree murder gets 25 - life , second degree gets a minimum term of 15-25 years to life If this guy is convicted, I’m sure he’ll get 25-life. (Theoretically, first degree murder can get a sentence of life without parole) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/817 "2024-12-14T23:58:13Z")
He may get the John Hinckley treatment and be in a mental institution for a few decades and actually get out some day. That would be my hope as his defense attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/818 "2024-12-15T01:40:51Z")
Oh. Well, okay. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/819 "2024-12-15T14:15:46Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He may get the John Hinckley treatment and be in a mental institution for a few decades and actually get out some day. That would be my hope as his defense attorney. Given how thorough his planning was, and that he was otherwise a functional human being, I don’t think the insanity defense has even a ghost of a chance. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/820 "2024-12-15T14:21:43Z")
Granted it was over 40 years ago but Hinkley was equally thorough and functional. Maybe more functional given that he had a job. He was way more delusional though. Luigi’s motive was at least coherent. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/821 "2024-12-15T14:35:44Z")
Hinkley’s acquittal, however, led to a huge backlash against the insanity defense. IIRC, Federal law specifically was changed to make it harder to be successful, and I believe several states followed suit. I don’t know what rule NY uses, but I would be surprised if someone who used planning and escaped (suggesting he both understood what he was doing and that it would be viewed as wrong) would be successful. Anyway, I wouldn’t take Hinkley has representative of current practice because Hinkley’s case itself led to widespread changes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/822 "2024-12-15T14:37:13Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Granted it was over 40 years ago but Hinkley was equally thorough and functional. Maybe more functional given that he had a job. He was way more delusional though. Luigi’s motive was at least coherent. Hinckley was delusional, and that was proven in court. Do we have any evidence Mangione was delusional at the time he committed the murder? It’s not impossible, just very, very unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/823 "2024-12-15T14:40:48Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He was way more delusional though. That makes a big difference , as does the relevant law. The insanity defense in New York requires the _defendant_ to prove that due to a mental disease or defect they lacked the capacity to know or understand the nature and consequences of their conduct or to know that their conduct is wrong. I believe that is the standard under Federal law now, but it wasn’t in 1982. At that time, the _prosecution_ would have had to prove that Hinkley was sane , and he could have been found not guilty if the jury found that he was unable to conform his conduct to the law , even if he knew what he was doing and that it was wrong. And of course, Hinkley’s acquittal was the reason for the change. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/824 "2024-12-15T17:16:16Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Rilchiam](#): > > > > a lot of people are calling for that law to be changed.” > > Why? The name doesn’t effect anything. Yanno, on further reflection, I think my memory was a bit off. It may have been the Sullivan laws that Mr. C said people wanted to change. I mean, that was forty years ago… …and this is a hell of a way to come full circle. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2024, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/825 "2024-12-16T00:12:48Z")
Lotta folks cite Louisiana law as being unlike tbe other 49 states. NY law is likewise quite weird compared to the other 48. More in terms of terminology than of function. But still real weird. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159/826 "2024-12-16T01:52:09Z")
Not least in calling its trial court the NY Supreme Court. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unitedhealthcare-ceo-fatally-shot-in-manhattan-breaking-news-2024-12-04/1011159.md?page=42)