# Universal Gun Background Checks: How would this work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349 "2013-02-25T15:12:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/161 "2013-04-17T18:48:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have no problem with enforcing responsible gun ownership and and accountability for securing guns. Actually I think you do, since you are penalizing even responsible gun owners. I own a gun. I keep it locked up in a cabinet, with a trigger guard and everything. Someone breaks into my house, breaks open the cabinet and steals my gun. Then he shoots somebody with my gun. Even though I took reasonable precautions, I am still being penalized. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/162 "2013-04-17T18:50:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Heller says the government cannot require gun locks or gun safes. My law does neither. Gun owners are free to keep guns where ever they wish, however, they assume the risk if something happens as a result. Accountability is not some sort of onerous tyranny. I have no problem with enforcing responsible gun ownership and and accountability for securing guns. Apparently you do. Isn’t that like saying that car thieves are free to steal cars wherever they wish, however, they assume the risk of going to jail if they are caught doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/163 "2013-04-17T19:10:17Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Isn’t that like saying that car thieves are free to steal cars wherever they wish, however, they assume the risk of going to jail if they are caught doing so? I don’t see how that is remotely similar. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/164 "2013-04-17T19:11:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually I think you do, since you are penalizing even responsible gun owners. > > I own a gun. I keep it locked up in a cabinet, with a trigger guard and everything. Someone breaks into my house, breaks open the cabinet and steals my gun. Then he shoots somebody with my gun. > > Even though I took reasonable precautions, I am still being penalized. Who decides what is reasonable? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/165 "2013-04-17T19:16:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t see how that is remotely similar. You don’t? You’re saying you’re free to do something, except it may well result in criminal punishment. That means you’re not actually free to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/166 "2013-04-17T19:18:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who decides what is reasonable? The statute and/or the court system. Care to take a stab at drafting a statute? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/167 "2013-04-17T19:18:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Heller says the government cannot require gun locks or gun safes. My law does neither. Gun owners are free to keep guns where ever they wish, however, they assume the risk if something happens as a result. Accountability is not some sort of onerous tyranny. I have no problem with enforcing responsible gun ownership and and accountability for securing guns. Apparently you do. You’re certainly on solid ground requiring that gun owners take reasonable steps to secure their guns, and imposing some civil liability if they don’t. Where your solid ground turns to dust, however, is in making your rule one of strict liability: no matter what precautions they take, they are liable if their gun is stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/168 "2013-04-17T19:21:11Z")
And keeping the title of the thread in mind: > [@CBS News](#): > > After weeks’ worth of negotiations over an amendment aimed at attracting Republican support to the Senate gun bill, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., announced that the amendment will likely “not get the votes” it needs to pass the Senate Wednesday, signaling a major setback for gun control advocates who have been pushing for weeks to get a bill through the chamber. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/169 "2013-04-17T19:21:42Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Care to take a stab at drafting a statute? What would that accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/170 "2013-04-17T19:22:44Z")
And from ABC News: > [@](#): > > A sense of pessimism was settling in among supporters of a plan to expand background checks for gun buyers, with an aggressive push from the White House and families of Newtown shooting victims still short of the votes needed when the legislation is considered later today. > > “If any of my colleagues wish to vote against stronger background checks – go ahead and do it and oppose the will of the American people,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said today as he opened debate on the bill. “But the American people have a long, long memory.” > > The Senate is scheduled to begin voting at 4 p.m. on the most sweeping gun legislation in two decades. A bipartisan plan to expand background checks at gun shows and in online sales – a compromise deal by Senators Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania – still faced skepticism from most Republicans and a few Democrats from gun-friendly states. > > “I’m still optimistic we can get there, but as of this morning we don’t have the votes,” Manchin told ABC News. He said the legislation was being “mischaracterized” by critics and urged his colleagues to “follow their conscience and read the bill.” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/171 "2013-04-17T19:23:26Z")
Good news! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/172 "2013-04-17T19:24:15Z")
And Huffington Post: > [@](#): > > Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) admitted Wednesday that his background check amendment did not have the votes for passage, and said in a television appearance that the National Rifle Association was lying about his bill. > > “We will not get the votes today,” Manchin told NBC News. That was a big admission for the West Virginia senator, who had been pushing an amendment to strengthen background checks with Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/173 "2013-04-17T19:26:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And keeping the title of the thread in mind: I suspect this will be a big political problem for Republicans in the Senate who have to win statewide elections, since background checks are overwhelmingly popular with nearly all demographics. In the House, not so much, because of gerrymandering. But it does give Democrats ammo for future elections: “Republicans did nothing when children died!” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/174 "2013-04-17T19:26:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What would that accomplish? It would ground your ideas in the kind of practical reality that lawmakers have to deal with, and as a by-product, require you to consider various exceptions, a penalty, and so forth. If you’d rather keep things vague, that’s your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/175 "2013-04-17T19:29:01Z")
If you think I am going to spend days drafting comprehensive legislation, just to have my adversaries reject it out of hand, you’re… mistaken. Take that as you will. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/176 "2013-04-17T19:33:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If you think I am going to spend days drafting comprehensive legislation, just to have my adversaries reject it out of hand, you’re… mistaken. Take that as you will. It’s really not that hard, hell, do it as just bullet points with no legalese. So far, all I know is that gun owners should face some kind of penalty if a gun they own is used in some harmful ways, regardless of the owner’s efforts to secure it. If that’s all you’re prepared to commit to, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/177 "2013-04-17T20:37:47Z")
Vote failed. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/178 "2013-04-17T20:38:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who decides what is reasonable? That’s much of my objection to your proposal - nothing would be reasonable enough to avoid being penalized. If somebody broke into a policeman’s house and stole his gun, you would hold him criminally responsible even if he locked it in a gun safe. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/179 "2013-04-17T20:48:26Z")
It is far preferable to absolutely no accountability for gun owners negligence in securing their weapons. None. Left his Glock on the hood of his car, and it is stolen? Whoops! He’s just another victim of a theft! Not his fault when it is used to kill the neighbor kid. Can’t touch him, he’s the victim. Well, him and the neighbor kid. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349/180 "2013-04-17T20:48:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Where your solid ground turns to dust, however, is in making your rule one of strict liability: no matter what precautions they take, they are liable if their gun is stolen. This is the point that Fear Itself seems determined to avoid answering directly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/universal-gun-background-checks-how-would-this-work/651349.md?page=10)