# University of California Starts Outsourcing IT jobs to India **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 9, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699 "2017-01-09T03:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/1 "2017-01-09T03:30:04Z")
> [@](#): > > UC San Francisco, the system’s biggest medical center, announced in July that it would lay off 49 career IT staffers and eliminate 48 other IT jobs that were vacant or filled by contract employees. The workers are to be gone as of Feb. 28. In the meantime they’ve been ordered to train their own replacements, who are employees of the Indian outsourcing firm HCL Technologies. > > The training process was described by UCSF managers by the Orwellian term “knowledge transfer,” according to Audrey Hatten-Milholin, 53, an IT architect with 17 years of experience at UCSF who will be laid off next month. > > “The argument for Disney or Edison is that its executives are driven to maximize profits,” says Ron Hira of Howard University, a expert in H-1B visas. “But UC is a public institution, not driven by profit. It’s qualitatively different from other employers.” > **[Column: How the University of California exploited a visa loophole to move...](https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-uc-visas-20170108-story.html)** > > Using a visa loophole to fire well-paid U.S. information technology workers and replace them with low-paid immigrants from India is despicable enough when it’s done by profit-making companies such as Southern California Edison and Walt Disney Co. But surely the state of California will save a few bucks, right? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/2 "2017-01-09T03:40:23Z")
Hmmm. 49 pissed off IT guys training their replacements. What could possibly be wrong with that plan… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/3 "2017-01-09T04:54:03Z")
Story of my career. And don’t call me Shirley. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/4 "2017-01-09T14:38:19Z")
That article seems to state that the jobs are being sent to India. But then it mentions H-1B visas, which I thought meant bringing foreign workers INTO the country. I’m confused 😕 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/5 "2017-01-09T14:48:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That article seems to state that the jobs are being sent to India. But then it mentions H-1B visas, which I thought meant bringing foreign workers INTO the country. I’m confused 😕 Maybe it’s this part: [QUOTE] who are employees of the Indian outsourcing firm HCL Technologies. [/QUOTE=] So in a weird way, the jobs are in India while the location is in California. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/6 "2017-01-09T14:51:37Z")
The H-1B visas are supposed to be used to fill jobs that can’t be filled easily with domestic workers, but it often works more like this situation. The jobs are already filled with domestic workers, but they cost more than the imports. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/7 "2017-01-09T15:19:04Z")
But why do they need H-1B visas if they are just going to be located in India? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/8 "2017-01-09T15:26:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But why do they need H-1B visas if they are just going to be located in India? I agree that the article is unclearly written, but it is talking about people coming from India to fill these jobs. Their employer is an Indian firm, but the workers will be on site at the university in California. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/9 "2017-01-09T15:29:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Hmmm. 49 pissed off IT guys training their replacements. What could possibly be wrong with that plan… Yeah, I’ve never understood that one. Unless the severance package was crazy good, I don’t see myself ever agreeing to train my own replacement. I can, OTOH, see myself saying “I’m not about to make this easy for you.” as I go out the door. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/10 "2017-01-09T16:11:19Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Yeah, I’ve never understood that one. Unless the severance package was crazy good, I don’t see myself ever agreeing to train my own replacement. > > I can, OTOH, see myself saying “I’m not about to make this easy for you.” as I go out the door. Sadly, a lot of people need the paycheck, and _do_ train their replacements. The fact that this is often the case ought to silence those who claim that disgruntled workers can simply find better jobs elsewhere. Only it won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/11 "2017-01-09T16:48:44Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I agree that the article is unclearly written, but it is talking about people coming from India to fill these jobs. Their employer is an Indian firm, but the workers will be on site at the university in California. How do you get that from the article? I mean it uses phrases like: “to send the jobs of American IT staff offshore” “ **By sending IT jobs abroad** , UC is undermining its own mission, which includes preparing California students to serve the high-tech industry” I mean, the title of the article is “How the University of California exploited a visa loophole **to move tech jobs to India** ” Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/12 "2017-01-09T19:02:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How do you get that from the article? I mean it uses phrases like: > > “to send the jobs of American IT staff offshore” It appears it will actually be a mix: _Ho and Gwilliam said they have been told 80 percent of the replacement workers, after their training, will return to India and work from there._ From an older article [here](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Laid-off-UCSF-tech-workers-allege-discrimination-10619188.php). So it looks like HCL will maintain a core on-site staff, but most of the work will be done in India. By the way, as you can see this is an older story going back a few months and there is already a law suit fluttering in the wind as of mid-November. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/13 "2017-01-10T00:52:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t see myself ever agreeing to train my own replacement. I could see myself training the hell out of them. “Fuck You” is the correct way to respond to any customer’s question. It’s considered very polite. Be sure to wash the inside of your computer with soap and water every 46 days (assuming I am out the door in 45 days). Whenever you have female interns, feel free to pinch them on the butt whenever you get the urge. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/14 "2017-01-10T01:41:48Z")
UCSF Medical Center was one of my clients. That was 25 years ago so I’m sure most of the people I worked with have retired or moved on but a few of them could still be there. I don’t see much sense here, this move will reduce their budget by 0.1% according to the article, and I can tell you within healthcare IT salaries are hardly a major cost, and similar moves within the industry have failed to materialize as overall cost savings long term. I think most likely the perceived savings will come from switching to contractors instead of employees, which usually ends up leaving the institution over a barrel long term. This is not a field where future costs are easy to predict, and nearly impossible to control in order to maintain compatibility with ever changing requirements. This whole thing smacks of a sweetheart deal, someone behind that decision is going to profit substantially at the cost of everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/15 "2017-01-10T02:03:59Z")
Yes but, [“Won’t Allow H-1B Visa Holders To Replace US Workers: Donald Trump”](http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/wont-allow-h1b-visa-holders-to-replace-us-workers-donald-trump-1636260). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/16 "2017-01-10T02:08:30Z")
> [@Little\_Pig](#): > > Yes but, [“Won’t Allow H-1B Visa Holders To Replace US Workers: Donald Trump”](http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/wont-allow-h1b-visa-holders-to-replace-us-workers-donald-trump-1636260). California didn’t vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/17 "2017-01-10T02:26:22Z")
Nevertheless, this would be an excellent opportunity for him to tweet something nasty about it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/18 "2017-01-10T02:39:25Z")
FFS. This has been happening for at least 20 years now. Is anyone surprised? First manufacturing went off-shore, then customer support, and now IT. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/19 "2017-01-10T03:19:50Z")
I predicted 20 years ago: We all end up living in pup tents and selling each other insurance. For the young: Do either food or funerals. Neither of those can be off-shored (except for the people (until a robot replaces them) who take the orders from McDonald’s drive-thru; they are centralized in a remote place. Don’t be surprised if the next time you hear “Can I take your order?” it has a Hindi/Tamil/Urdu accent). Oh - add “car repair” and “construction” to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699/20 "2017-01-12T02:05:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > California didn’t vote for Trump. Interestingly, Trump got [4,483,810 votes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_California,_2016#Results_2) in California. He only got [174,419 votes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Wyoming,_2016) in Wyoming. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-california-starts-outsourcing-it-jobs-to-india/776699.md?page=2)