# University of Phoenix - legitimate degree or joke? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003 "2014-01-06T06:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/1 "2014-01-06T06:46:22Z")
I confess to being skeptical of on-line (or mostly on-line) degrees. If you are trying to get promoted within a company you are currently working for, and the position requires a degree, I can see looking at one of these options like the Univ. Of Phoenix to get the piece of paper. But U of Phoenix has been around for quite a while now. So, has it become an accepted “school” to have a degree from when you go out into the job market? Does anyone here have a U. Of Phoenix (or other similar) degree, and can you share your experiences with it when job hunting? And if you have a degree from there, what was your opinion of the quality of the education received? Is that opinion shared by others you’ve dealt with, or has your experience been that people don’t view them as “real” degrees? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/2 "2014-01-06T06:57:41Z")
They are currently accredited, but “on notice.” I haven’t met anyone who has a great deal of respect for University of Phoenix degrees. There are online programs run by more reputable institutions, in any case. Western Governors University has a good reputation. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/3 "2014-01-06T15:07:03Z")
First, some background thoughts: 1. If the company is so rules-driven that they don’t want to promote someone merely because they didn’t get a college degree umpteen years ago, I’m not sure I’d want to work at that company. 2. If the company is so institutionally loony that they don’t care where the degree is from or what it’s in, just that you have one, I’m not sure I’d want to work at that company. That being said, I recognize that not everyone can just change jobs on a whim, so assuming you’re stuck there… 1. I don’t think UoP has that great a reputation, and there have been rants from professors that quit because they were tired of how bad the education they were required to provide was. 2. Many online colleges, and UoP included, have a reputation of stringing someone along to suck more money out of them. If you’re smart about it, you can probably avoid this, but it’s a trap they don’t seem to mind others falling into. 3. Credits probably won’t transfer if you decide to get a degree from a more respected institution. 4. My guess is you can find something cheaper that works with your schedule if you look into your local community colleges. 5. Don’t expect the education you get at UoP to be worth much if anything. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/4 "2014-01-06T15:15:33Z")
Phoenix, as mentioned, is accredited. Their strongpoint is in allowing people to complete degrees while working. A lot of the driving force behind their expansion (and that of similar institutions) was how employers started making specific levels of degree a requirement for promotion/retention, so obtaining degrees becomes a checkmarking exercise. So it’s “accepted” in the sense that it ticks off that box in the HR form but if someone shows up with a Masters from Phoenix and some other person shows up with one from State U., I know which one tilts the balance _all-else-being-equal_. Then again you could say that about many other institutional comparisons. They catch a lot of flak for being established for-profit, which raises eyebrows, fairly or not, about matters of rigor. Like it has been already stated, there are other accredited online institutions and credit-transfer/credit-for-work programs, as well as ever more online programs being offered by more established institutions, and programs for accommodating the working student among both public and private institutions (not just CCs). ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/5 "2014-01-06T15:50:43Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > 1. I don’t think UoP has that great a reputation, and there have been rants from professors that quit because they were tired of how bad the education they were required to provide was. > > 2. Many online colleges, and UoP included, have a reputation of stringing someone along to suck more money out of them. If you’re smart about it, you can probably avoid this, but it’s a trap they don’t seem to mind others falling into. > > 3. Credits probably won’t transfer if you decide to get a degree from a more respected institution. I’m going to focus on these three points, because I think they are worth noting. The idea that the credits won’t transfer is important, especially if one has the idea of ising the degree to move forward with their education, and/or decides to go to a brick and mortar type school. I did not realize credits from an “accredited” university could be kept from transferring, but I confess to knowing little about how a school gets accredited in the first place, and what that actually means. I always thought that being accredited meant that the degree and credits WERE recognized, because the school had jumped through the necessary hoops to prove to whoever that the education was on par with a similar program at a typical higher education institution (let’s call it State University). On-line colleges are not the only schools that have the reputation of stringing students along for money. I went to grad school and saw how things worked. If you wanted an “A” you had to earn it. And you had to work for it. There were no gimmee "A"s. However, passing the class was somewhat different. If you put in some effort and seemed to have a general grasp of the subject matter, you got a “B”, and if you showed up and put ypur time in, ypu almost always got a “C”. A “C” is looked at as failing at many schools, because some schools require you to carry a GPA above 2.5 to continue. Now, we all know that those types of things are flexible, and if a company is paying for one’s education, then the school is more likely to be forgiving. However, most companies will not re-emburse a student for a “C” grade (IME, anyway), so if you want that degree and can’t pay for it, you will work to get at least a “B”. My graduate education was IMO excellent, but I had to put the time in. And teachers made you work for the “A”. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Phoenix, as mentioned, is accredited. Their strongpoint is in allowing people to complete degrees while working. A lot of the driving force behind their expansion (and that of similar institutions) was how employers started making specific levels of degree a requirement for promotion/retention, so obtaining degrees becomes a checkmarking exercise. So it’s “accepted” in the sense that it ticks off that box in the HR form but if someone shows up with a Masters from Phoenix and some other person shows up with one from State U., I know which one tilts the balance _all-else-being-equal_. Then again you could say that about many other institutional comparisons. > > They catch a lot of flak for being established for-profit, which raises eyebrows, fairly or not, about matters of rigor. > > Like it has been already stated, there are other accredited online institutions and credit-transfer/credit-for-work programs, as well as ever more online programs being offered by more established institutions, and programs for accommodating the working student among both public and private institutions (not just CCs). The idea of people being offended that U of P is for-profit makes me laugh. ALL schools are for profit, U of P is just honest about it. They don’t surround the piece of paper with football teams and sprawling campuses. So, if the education is good, I’d be ok with it. But I have also heard that the degree is little more than time + money, and that’s not a good reputation. Especially if graduates don’t seem to have much in the way of knowledge after getting that degree. As for other schools, i know nothing about the quality of their on-line programs, other than what I’ve read. I think what troubles me is that schools see the demand for on-line programs only growing, and want to cash in on that market. That cheapens the degree and the institution, IMO, but that’s just me. I DO know that some schools have waived the requirement for GMAT scores to enter their on-line MBA program, and that isn’t a good trend. I don’t think the test is a perfect predictor of who can and cannot succeed at the graduate level, but it does show aptitude. And without requiring an entrance exam makes it look even more like money is all that the schools are after. Which is probably true. Does anyone know of a school that has PhD. Programs that are on-line? And how are they regarded? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/6 "2014-01-06T15:52:41Z")
I also suggest taking a look at WGU. It’s not Harvard, but better than Phoenix and is non profit and accredited. They don’t have PhD programs, but there are some master programs. It’s very, very affordable too. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/7 "2014-01-06T16:08:30Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > That being said, I recognize that not everyone can just change jobs on a whim, so assuming you’re stuck there… > > 1. I don’t think UoP has that great a reputation, and there have been rants from professors that quit because they were tired of how bad the education they were required to provide was. > > 2. Many online colleges, and UoP included, have a reputation of stringing someone along to suck more money out of them. If you’re smart about it, you can probably avoid this, but it’s a trap they don’t seem to mind others falling into. > > 3. Credits probably won’t transfer if you decide to get a degree from a more respected institution. Credits do transfer as long as the new facility deems the class to be an equivalent class in the curriculum. That is the advantage of accreditation through one of the [Regional Associations of Colleges and Schools](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation). For example, if I go to UoP online and take courses in Business, then switch to, let’s say, the University of Houston, then U of H will probably accept most of the classes I took: Accounting, Economics, etc. And if I’m working toward a concentration, such as MIS, then most of those courses will transfer as well. The issue is that the new university will probably cap the number of transfer credits accepted, no matter what the source. For example, when I registered (way back when) with SWTSU (now TSU San Marcos), I transferred about 80 some-odd hours from UT Austin and ACC. SWTSU would only allow 66 hours, so I wound up graduating with extra hours on my transcript. > [@](#): > > 1. My guess is you can find something cheaper that works with your schedule if you look into your local community colleges. Agreed. Community colleges are a good way to get credits cheaply. > [@](#): > > 1. Don’t expect the education you get at UoP to be worth much if anything. Disagreed. I’ve worked with people who have degrees from UoP and they were quite knowledgeable in their fields. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/8 "2014-01-06T16:19:47Z")
People are using the term “accredited” but it hasn’t been defined. There are different levels of accreditation. The one that matters is the [AACSB](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_to_Advance_Collegiate_Schools_of_Business). The Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business is a 687 school group that has all the serious players as members. On this list you’ll find Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, and the rest of the Top Tier schools. You’ll also find the good state schools with MBA programs such as UNH and UMASS. You won’t find Phoenix or other schools such as SNHU. Note that this has nothing to do with online vs offline. You can go to a good school and get an MBA that is entirely online. Or you can go to a diploma mill that has a physical campus. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/9 "2014-01-06T16:24:21Z")
Western Governors University isn’t on the list of [Accredited Schools](http://www.aacsb.edu/accreditation/AccreditedMembers.asp) and I’ve never heard of it. I’d stay away. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/10 "2014-01-06T16:46:37Z")
Let me explain further what I mean by transfer credits may not transfer. For example, I went to Georgia Tech, so I looked up their transfer rules here: [GT Transfer Articulation -- Find Location](https://oscar.gatech.edu/pls/bprod/wwsktrna.P_find_location) Long and short of it, while you can transfer credits, not always, even from one state research institute to another. For example, the first half dozen or so math courses from Georgia Southern don’t transfer to GT (mainly they are college algebra and pre-calc courses). Calculus does transfer, but if you thought “hey, I need 12 math credits to graduate” you might be surprised to find 9 of them don’t make the cut. Similarly, if you went to Toccoa College (which I pick because I had a friend go there), the only things that would transfer are 2 English courses and calc I, so you’re looking at most of your credits going nowhere. Herzing, which is a local for profit I see advertised on MARTA, doesn’t even get that far - 1 course of english and one that is a ‘departmental evaluation’. Assuming UoP is the “Univ Phoenix” from Arizona in the list, it’s slim pickings afaict. Now, I will freely admit that GT may not be the best example for transfer credit, and I have known people that played the “transfer game” - transfer from sketchy U to community college and then from community college to state U, which got the credits transferred, but would not have worked going from sketchy U to State U. But I think expecting all or most of your credits from UoP to transfer is naive. ---
**Author:** ![Snowcarpet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowcarpet/32/257_2.png) [@Snowcarpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowcarpet)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/11 "2014-01-06T16:53:02Z")
WGU offers quite a different type of education than is offered by most online schools - it is a _nonprofit_ program that you complete at your own pace. It is well-respected and accredited, but is decidedly NOT a good fit for all students. A friend of mine wrapped up an MBA in record time, but she applied herself to her classes. The non-self-motivated will not do well. [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober\_2011/features/the\_college\_forprofits\_should031640.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2011/features/the_college_forprofits_should031640.php) [http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/045167c48ffc4f4c97e148db7852d69a/WA--Washington-Online-University](http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/045167c48ffc4f4c97e148db7852d69a/WA--Washington-Online-University) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/12 "2014-01-06T17:10:34Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > On-line colleges are not the only schools that have the reputation of stringing students along for money. I went to grad school and saw how things worked. If you wanted an “A” you had to earn it. And you had to work for it. There were no gimmee "A"s. However, passing the class was somewhat different. If you put in some effort and seemed to have a general grasp of the subject matter, you got a “B”, and if you showed up and put ypur time in, ypu almost always got a “C”. A “C” is looked at as failing at many schools, because some schools require you to carry a GPA above 2.5 to continue. Now, we all know that those types of things are flexible, and if a company is paying for one’s education, then the school is more likely to be forgiving. However, most companies will not re-emburse a student for a “C” grade (IME, anyway), so if you want that degree and can’t pay for it, you will work to get at least a “B”. In the school I taught in for many years, C in a graduate course was a failure and you were formally expelled. You could petition for readmission and it was automatic. But get a second C and you were toast. That said, getting a B- didn’t take a lot of work. But we certainly weren’t “stringing students on”. We were supporting one way or another (research grants, TAships mostly) almost every graduate student and certainly didn’t need non-performers. I think the situation is similar, at least in math and science departments in all reputable universities. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/13 "2014-01-06T17:13:55Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > There are different levels of accreditation. The one that matters is the [AACSB](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_to_Advance_Collegiate_Schools_of_Business). The Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business is a 687 school group that has all the serious players as members.[…]. **IF** you are speaking of \*\*specifically MBA \*\*programs. Not if you are taking a MA in school administration or a BA in IT. Phoenix and WGU, for instance, have the regular [Regional Accreditation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation) mentioned in **Clothahump** ’s post above, which is the standard for arts & sciences institutions in general. One item that does make people go :dubious: about a place like Phoenix is if the proliferation of “satellite centers” across different states under the aegis of the “home” school’s accreditation can ensure that the standards compliance that earned that home institution its accreditation are properly met and overseen all over. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/14 "2014-01-06T17:57:34Z")
Joke is too harsh, but it is basically a worthless degree. And overpriced as well. I wouldn’t spend a minute looking over a candidates resume if has a UoPhoenix degree listed. For-profit _does_ make a difference. The techniques used in recruiting people are quite questionable. Their main strategy is to accept anyone and everyone, help them get student loans, take their tuition money, and that’s it. They make a lot of promises about degrees and jobs, but the really don’t care about that. It’s all about the $. The “recruiters” for such schools are just sales reps. They have a quota. If they don’t meet their quota, they are out of a job. This makes their recruiting tactics quite sleazy at times. The most important thing to keep in mind: You can get a real, respectable, degree from a local state school for a lot less money. Why would anyone get sucked into a for-profit place is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/15 "2014-01-06T18:00:33Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > First, some background thoughts: > > 1. If the company is so rules-driven that they don’t want to promote someone merely because they didn’t get a college degree umpteen years ago, I’m not sure I’d want to work at that company. > > 2. If the company is so institutionally loony that they don’t care where the degree is from or what it’s in, just that you have one, I’m not sure I’d want to work at that company. For what it’s worth, some of the government contracts my company bids on require us to show that we have a manpower pool that meets certain criteria – bachelor degrees, masters degrees, x years of experience in the relative field, professional certifications, etc. Our professional biographies are often included in proposals. So it’s possible to have an institution that wants degrees without caring where they’re from without being loony. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/16 "2014-01-06T18:12:15Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > The idea of people being offended that U of P is for-profit makes me laugh. ALL schools are for profit, U of P is just honest about it. They don’t surround the piece of paper with football teams and sprawling campuses. So, if the education is good, I’d be ok with it. But I have also heard that the degree is little more than time + money, and that’s not a good reputation. Especially if graduates don’t seem to have much in the way of knowledge after getting that degree. U of Ps bad reputation is not only because it is for profit, but because its business model seems to be extracting as much student loan money as possible from students and the government and then letting students twist slowly in the wind. From [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Phoenix) > [@](#): > > USA Today has listed University of Phoenix as a “red flag” institution for posting a default rate (26%) that surpassed its graduation rate (17%).[3] A 2010 report found that the University of Phoenix’s online graduation rate was only 5 percent.[4] According to [collegecalc.org](http://collegecalc.org), tuition costs are typically 300% to 500% more expensive than community colleges[5] > > According to USA Today, the University of Phoenix’s Detroit campus has a graduation rate of only 10%, but a student loan default rate of 26.4%.[6] The university has 112 campuses worldwide and confers degrees in over 100 degree programs at the associate, bachelor’s, master’s and doctoral degree levels.[7] The University of Phoenix closed 115 of its campuses in 2013, previously having over 200.[2] > > University of Phoenix attained a peak enrollment of almost 600,000 students in 2010, but its numbers have declined almost 60 percent since 2010. The enrollment drop has been attributed to operational changes amid criticism of high debt loads and low job prospects for university students.[8] These changes included allowing students to try classes before officially enrolling and recruiter training programs that are designed to improve student retention and completion rates.[9] In October 2013, Apollo Group reported University of Phoenix’s degreed total enrollment 269,000, an 18% decline from 2012. New degreed enrollment fell 22% to 41,000.[10] I suppose a really self-motivated hard working student could get through - but this student could make it in better places also. My son-in-law’s sister “went” to U of P for a who;e - spent a lot of money and got nowhere. She is neither hard working or motivated - just what they are looking for. I believe that new rules are going to prevent schools with inadequate completion rates from getting federal student loan money, so perhaps the days of these places are numbered. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/17 "2014-01-06T18:28:46Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > **IF** you are speaking of \*\*specifically MBA \*\*programs. Not if you are taking a MA in school administration or a BA in IT. > > Phoenix and WGU, for instance, have the regular [Regional Accreditation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation) mentioned in **Clothahump** ’s post above, which is the standard for arts & sciences institutions in general. True, I was talking about MBA programs. Science programs are different. Finding a high quality liberal arts program is sort of an oxymoron, though, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/18 "2014-01-06T18:29:24Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Western Governors University isn’t on the list of [Accredited Schools](http://www.aacsb.edu/accreditation/AccreditedMembers.asp) and I’ve never heard of it. > > I’d stay away. It’s not AACSB accredited by it is regionally accredited. It’s not a bad school at all and very affordable. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/19 "2014-01-06T19:38:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > True, I was talking about MBA programs. Science programs are different. > > Finding a high quality liberal arts program is sort of an oxymoron, though, isn’t it? Aren’t all the Ivy League schools liberal arts programs? You don’t think THEY are high quality? Unless this is just a dig at liberal arts programs in general, which I find crass. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/20 "2014-01-06T20:28:50Z")
Yeah, let’s try and not go there, it’s not the topic… > [@steronz](#): > > For what it’s worth, some of the government contracts my company bids on require us to show that we have a manpower pool that meets certain criteria – bachelor degrees, masters degrees, x years of experience in the relative field, professional certifications, etc. Our professional biographies are often included in proposals. So it’s possible to have an institution that wants degrees without caring where they’re from without being loony. Exactly, this is what I meant by the “checkmarking” and ticket-punching, that led to the expansion of UPhoenix and the like. And it’s not that much different from how some HR or departments will have programs that read submitted resumés looking for keywords/key phrases and just disregarding anything that does not contain them. (I have in earlier threads mentioned that when police departments started requiring specific academic levels for promotions, that created a proliferation of “Criminal Justice” programs at various local colleges, mostly composed of night/Saturday classes.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003.md?page=2)