# University of Phoenix - legitimate degree or joke? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003 "2014-01-06T06:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/21 "2014-01-06T21:06:49Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > They don’t surround the piece of paper with football teams and sprawling campuses. Whaddya mean? They’ve got this great stadium in Phoenix! ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/22 "2014-01-07T03:37:20Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > U of Ps bad reputation is not only because it is for profit, but because its business model seems to be extracting as much student loan money as possible from students and the government and then letting students twist slowly in the wind. > > I suppose a really self-motivated hard working student could get through - but this student could make it in better places also. My son-in-law’s sister “went” to U of P for a who;e - spent a lot of money and got nowhere. She is neither hard working or motivated - just what they are looking for. > > I believe that new rules are going to prevent schools with inadequate completion rates from getting federal student loan money, so perhaps the days of these places are numbered. (Link to Wiki article removed.) I work in the well-respected field of student loan debt collection. A good number of the people I talk to on a daily basis are in real trouble because they went to some for-profit school that sold them a worthless degree, and a good number of these people went to University of Phoenix. UoP appeals to people who wouldn’t make it in a more traditional higher education setting because they only require two classes every eight weeks, as opposed to four or five (or more) every 15 or 16; it’s far easier to manage two classes than it is to manage four. This structure also ensures that all students are eligible for federal student loans because the gubmint will only approve loans for students attending at least half time, and if two classes are full-time, one is half-time, so lo and behold! all students can get loans to pay for school. Suffice it to say, I have a lot of problems with for-profit schools and would love to see them go away. For what it’s worth, the Department of Education, which manages the Federal Student Aid program, is cracking down on schools with high rates of delinquency. I don’t know if schools will lose all eligibility for federal financial aid, but there will be some consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/23 "2014-01-07T04:39:01Z")
The University of Phoenix is under sanction by the [Higher Learning Commission](http://www.ncahlc.org/Information-for-the-Public/public-disclosure-notices.html). If they don’t change their ways, they will lose accreditation. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/24 "2014-01-07T14:35:00Z")
You’re better off going to [Empire State College](http://www.esc.edu/), which is accredited and part of the State University of New York. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/25 "2014-01-07T16:15:23Z")
In addition to Western Governors University and Empire State College in New York, there’s also Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey and Charter Oak State College in Connecticut. All are legitimate online schools. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/26 "2014-01-07T18:22:55Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > …UoP appeals to people who wouldn’t make it in a more traditional higher education setting because they only require two classes every eight weeks, as opposed to four or five (or more) every 15 or 16; it’s far easier to manage two classes than it is to manage four… I have a problem with this idea. Why is scheduling so important? Isn’t the point of school to learn the material and achieve research goals, not prove that you have uber-multitasking capabilities and have no life outside of school? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/27 "2014-01-07T19:00:43Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I have a problem with this idea. Why is scheduling so important? Isn’t the point of school to learn the material and achieve research goals, not prove that you have uber-multitasking capabilities and have no life outside of school? Google “non-cognitive abilities.” The idea behind this is that successfully making it through the rigors of “schooling” is just as important as the “book learning”. This may explain why HS drop-outs with GEDs tend not to be as successful as HS graduates. A high diploma indicates someone has some level of commitment and tenacity. These are skills you need in the workplace. It seems to me that someone who is willing to juggle classes and full-time work and family is an attractive candidate. But in terms of “Is this employee likely to flake out?”, a diploma from a traditional school, acquired over 4 to 5 years, is probably a better indicator. That’s why UofP and the like will never be viewed with much respect, rightly or wrongly. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/28 "2014-01-07T20:02:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > In addition to Western Governors University and Empire State College in New York, there’s also Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey and Charter Oak State College in Connecticut. All are legitimate online schools. And Excelsior College, also in NY, that built itself up serving people like military members who’d accumulate a bunch of credits at different institutions as they moved around in their work but would risk “losing” a lot of them in the transfer process to a “final degree” institution (that situation seems to have improved since). ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/29 "2014-01-08T03:31:42Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I have a problem with this idea. Why is scheduling so important? Isn’t the point of school to learn the material and achieve research goals, not prove that you have uber-multitasking capabilities and have no life outside of school? Well, sure, but at the UoP, you’re probably not going to learn the material and you’re not going to achieve research goals. Eight weeks is not nearly enough time to learn the material in any real depth, even if you’re only taking two classes. And UoP isn’t a research school, so you’re not going to get a lot of experience doing that. Basically, at the undergraduate level, UoP is about cramming as much information as possible into as short a period as possible, and that’s a lousy way to learn. And to add on to what **monstro** said, a lot of formal education has to do with the so-called “hidden curriculum”. How are you at managing multiple tasks and deadlines? Can you show up to class on time? What about group work – can you learn to work with people who are different from you to achieve a common goal? How do you work with superiors (e.g. faculty)? And most important to employers, can you fit into a new culture and adopt its values and norms as your own? These are things that are taught in a traditional college setting, but that are harder to get in a setting like the UoP. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/30 "2014-01-08T04:11:38Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > The University of Phoenix is under sanction by the [Higher Learning Commission](http://www.ncahlc.org/Information-for-the-Public/public-disclosure-notices.html). If they don’t change their ways, they will lose accreditation. It’s not a matter of changing their ways. Their parent organization has applied for a restructuring and they are on notice that certain paperwork has to be file by certain deadlines. There are no sanctions being imposed upon them. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/31 "2014-01-08T07:52:26Z")
A few more idiot employers requiring (another) degree from every employee with a desk, and we’ll be back in 1969 with the draft-dodging schools. Let’s hear it for Parson’s! ---
**Author:** ![jayrocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@jayrocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayrocks)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/32 "2015-03-31T01:45:00Z")
I just got off the telephone with the admissions office at the University of Southern California (USC, Trojans) a well respected university and asked them if they would accept a B.S. in Human Services from the University of Phoenix so I can continue my education in their Master’s program in Human Services. Guess what guys. unfortunately, they did NOT tell me NO!!! They said they would accept the degree to further my education. So who ever is making rumors that Univ. of Phoenix Degrees don’t transfer, is probably someone who couldn’t hack the curriculum U of P offers. P.S. this is not a paper I am writing, so don’t be quick to judge and say that I don’t know how to write. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/33 "2015-03-31T04:19:04Z")
U of P has a pretty kick ass stadium in Glendale, AZ. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/34 "2015-03-31T10:47:16Z")
> [@jayrocks](#): > > I just got off the telephone with the admissions office at the University of Southern California (USC, Trojans) a well respected university and asked them if they would accept a B.S. in Human Services from the University of Phoenix so I can continue my education in their Master’s program in Human Services. Guess what guys. unfortunately, they did NOT tell me NO!!! They said they would accept the degree to further my education. So who ever is making rumors that Univ. of Phoenix Degrees don’t transfer, is probably someone who couldn’t hack the curriculum U of P offers. P.S. this is not a paper I am writing, so don’t be quick to judge and say that I don’t know how to write. I think what some are saying is that the classes themselves do not transfer, not the final degree. I taught at a for-profit institute for a while. They decided to shut down my department. The students were given a choice to transfer to another school within the institute, stay at our location and receive a non-acredited (in our field) degree, or go to a university. The few that went the university route discovered that 95% of the classes taken at the institute were not transferable. The university felt they were not equivalent. When I transferred from one state to college to another, a lot of classes were not transferred, but not to this extent. My experience with for-profit schools is that they are preditory. Our main students were ex-military with a GI Bill (who often discovered that their allotment was not sufficient to finish the degree), and students that could not possibly get into a traditional university (The vast majority of my students struggled with remedial math, for example). This said, the knowledge they recieved was very good (if they went to class). My colleagues genuinely were great teachers. It wasn’t the education that was a problematic here, it was the recruitment department. They would accept pretty much anyone with a pulse that has access to money. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/35 "2015-03-31T11:56:19Z")
> [@jayrocks](#): > > I just got off the telephone with the admissions office at the University of Southern California (USC, Trojans) a well respected university and asked them if they would accept a B.S. in Human Services from the University of Phoenix so I can continue my education in their Master’s program in Human Services. Guess what guys. unfortunately, they did NOT tell me NO!!! They said they would accept the degree to further my education. So who ever is making rumors that Univ. of Phoenix Degrees don’t transfer, is probably someone who couldn’t hack the curriculum U of P offers. P.S. this is not a paper I am writing, so don’t be quick to judge and say that I don’t know how to write. Do you actually have an acceptance letter from USC, or were you just not able to get an admissions officer to say that they would definitively not accept your UoP degree? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/36 "2015-03-31T12:52:18Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > For what it’s worth, some of the government contracts my company bids on require us to show that we have a manpower pool that meets certain criteria – bachelor degrees, masters degrees, x years of experience in the relative field, professional certifications, etc. Our professional biographies are often included in proposals. So it’s possible to have an institution that wants degrees without caring where they’re from without being loony. This is true. My brother has a master’s degree in music (from a venerable institution), but is a (mostly) self-taught IT expert. When he worked as a contractor, his company was allowed to bill the government at basically the same rate as someone with a master’s in IT. He had numerous IT certifications though, and had worked in IT during his military career. More recently, he moved to the civil service, and the government again recognized his master’s degree in the grade they offered him. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/37 "2015-03-31T13:03:37Z")
Just a few points: [ul][li]University of Phoenix is one of the schools with in-person classes on the US military bases overseas. They cannot do that without accreditation.[/li][li]It doesn’t matter if people you’ve met “don’t have a lot of respect for the degree” or not; what matters is that it is accredited.[/li][li]Regarding credits in transfer, a number of schools have a limit on how many credits one can transfer from another institution. That’s one of the reasons for the military’s “Contract for Degree” program with participating universities.[/ul][/li] It seems to me that those decrying UofP’s degree are stuck in the past. The educational landscape has changed a lot in even just the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/38 "2015-03-31T13:42:20Z")
[quote=“Monty, post:37, topic:678003”] [li]It doesn’t matter if people you’ve met “don’t have a lot of respect for the degree” or not; what matters is that it is accredited.[/li][/QUOTE] No, not really. If an overwhelming number of recruiters and employers do not respect the degree from UoP and as a result UoP grads have difficult getting employment as compared to graduates of other schools, then it really does matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/39 "2015-03-31T13:56:44Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > No, not really. If an overwhelming number of recruiters and employers do not respect the degree from UoP and as a result UoP grads have difficult getting employment as compared to graduates of other schools, then it really does matter. Yes. I am unlikely to hire you. If you already work for me, it is unlikely to help you get promoted. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003/40 "2015-03-31T14:42:56Z")
As a public librarian I would appreciate it if every 2 Click U would catch fire and burn to the ground. They take advantage of people’s hopes and desperation, “accept” students who have no business being out of middle school and have no hope of doing college work or who, alternately, could be getting a real education for less money at a community college or state university, and take not just their money but _our_ money. And leave them with the public library as their only resource. No. Don’t. Very Bad. And no, I would not look twice at a resume with any of those places on it. University of Phoenix is not the worst of them, but it’s definitely among them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-phoenix-legitimate-degree-or-joke/678003.md?page=3)