# University of State... ranking **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480 "2013-03-20T19:25:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/21 "2013-03-21T02:02:45Z")
If there are some strong indications of the best state universities, are there also generally agreed on worst state universities? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/22 "2013-03-21T02:20:32Z")
There are also: [ul] [li]The [Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU).](http://www.arwu.org/)[/li][li]The [_Times Higher Education_ World University Rankings 2012-2013](http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/).[/li][li]The [World University Rankings](http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings).[/li][/ul] You can use them to see how they rate the top USA universities. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/23 "2013-03-21T02:47:12Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > If there are some strong indications of the best state universities, are there also generally agreed on worst state universities? I know a lot about colleges and universities in general because it was a curious interest of mine for a long time and I have been to a whole lot of them. It is a good question although it could be offensive to some. The Southern states that have relatively poor educational outcomes overall usually go overboard on their flagship state schools. Louisiana State University is extremely well funded and a focus of state pride. It also has some top notch academic programs even by world standards. Ole Miss (Mississippi) doesn’t have quite as much but is still well-funded and has everything a good university should have it is beautiful. The University of Alabama and Auburn (their A&M state school) are the same way. The University of Texas is a great and huge and also a world-class research institution. They also have Texas A&M which excels at many things. I picked those examples because they are the flagship schools for states that don’t have the best academic reputation at all levels but they still pull it off at the highest levels. I don’t know of any state that doesn’t have at least one great university. In the Northeast, The University of Massachusetts isn’t bad at all but it gets greatly overshadowed by Harvard, MIT, and over 100 other prestigious private schools in the state. The same thing happens in tiny Rhode Island because they have the state schools as well as Ivy League Brown and Rhode Island School of Design. I get the impression that the University of New Hampshire is perfectly fine but also gets overshadowed by Ivy League Dartmouth and doesn’t try to reach up that level. Maine has a a lot of great private colleges and universities but the University of Maine also gets the job done. The Midwestern states have flagship state universities that are well-funded in the same way they do it the South and they all have world-class programs. The University of Iowa and the University of Illinois have some top-notch programs. However, I don’t know much about the University of Wyoming, South Dakota, or Idaho for example. Maybe the less populated states leave something to be desired but I don’t know that for a fact. I have just never heard much about them. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/24 "2013-03-21T03:25:25Z")
[Moderating] Moved thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. [/Moderating] The question is really impossible to answer without more information. Do you want them ranked in order of placement of their football teams last year? Average percentage of graduates who got non-minimum-wage jobs within six months of graduation? Amount of donation money received each year? Staff:student ratio? Playboy’s party school rank? Ratio of male:female students? Ranking them by the quality of science education would produce dramatically different results than ranking by the quality of liberal arts education – and both of those are subject to the inherent subjectivity of the word “quality.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/25 "2013-03-21T03:40:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > While there’s no “University of New York,” there is a state university system with numerous campuses. Look for SUNY (State University of New York). By almost all accounts, SUNY-Binghamton is the most academically respected and prestigious branch. > > As you note, the NAME of a college doesn’t necessarily tell us if it’s state-run. There is no “University of New Jersey,” but Rutgers IS, in effect, the state university of New Jersey. There is a New York University and it’s a respected school. But its affiliation is with the city of New York not the state. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/26 "2013-03-21T03:47:34Z")
The UC (at least Berkeley, LA, and San Diego) belong at the top of the list. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/27 "2013-03-21T03:55:43Z")
I’m not an expert on education, but I think the answer might well be the University of California. That could be either the University of California system, consisting of 10 Campuses, or it could be specifically the UC Berkeley campus (“Cal”). A good argument could be made either way. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/28 "2013-03-21T04:07:35Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > As you note, the NAME of a college doesn’t necessarily tell us if it’s state-run. There is no “University of New Jersey,” but Rutgers IS, in effect, the state university of New Jersey. No “in effect” necessary. The full name of the school is “Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.” ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/29 "2013-03-21T04:12:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There is a New York University and it’s a respected school. But its affiliation is with the city of New York not the state. There’s also the City University of New York (CUNY), which is separate from the State University of New York (SUNY). Both receive funding from New York State, but CUNY receives additional funds from New York City itself. To further complicate matters, SUNY funds four colleges in Cornell University, the otherwise privately-endowed Ivy League school. Cornell is actually the state’s land grant institution under the Morrill Act. Cornell in effect operates the colleges under contract from the state. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/30 "2013-03-21T05:06:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > They’re wrong, too, and we take note of them just to tell them that they’re wrong. You can do this while stil acknowledging that they are impactful in the world that we live in. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But while the rankings may influence some [insert pejorative adjective of your choice] people in their choice of colleges, they don’t actually matter in any other way. And everybody who understands anything about college knows that it’s true so it doesn’t help you in the slightest to try to make that case. This is incorrect. I use them when I hire people because I don’t have time to research every school in the country and assess for myself how good they are or are not. If you are not interested in getting a good job, they don’t matter. If you are, they do. That doesn’t mean that you can’t get a good without going to a well ranked school, or that you will automatically get a good job by going to a well ranked school, but the correlation is certainly there, and to ignore that fact when making an important decision is just silly. > [@astorian](#): > > Even IF the U.S. News rankings were valid, do you really think there’s a huge difference between, say, the 40th ranked school and the 50th? Or the 50th and 60th? No. There is, however, a huge difference in earning potential between the 10th or 20th and the 50th or 60th - especially when looking at professional school, such as an MBA or JD (of which I have both). People may ignore this if they want to, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to advise them to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/31 "2013-03-21T05:17:00Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I use them when I hire people because I don’t have time to research every school in the country and assess for myself how good they are or are not. I considered the reputations of schools when I was hiring as well, and I’ll bet my list and yours would have been very different (I am guessing from the fact that you have a JD and MBA that you weren’t hiring engineers). The best law school in the country may be also be the worst engineering school. A great school for mathematics may be horrible for archaeology. Any ranking system that simply says “School A is #1 and School B is #10” without very specific stated criteria is worse than useless. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/32 "2013-03-21T05:21:42Z")
There is Cal (Berkeley) and then there is everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/33 "2013-03-21T05:22:09Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:31, topic:653480”] I considered the reputations of schools when I was hiring as well, and I’ll bet my list and yours would have been very different (I am guessing from the fact that you have a JD and MBA that you weren’t hiring engineers). The best law school in the country may be also be the worst engineering school. A great school for mathematics may be horrible for archaeology. Any ranking system that simply says “School A is #1 and School B is #10” without very specific stated criteria is worse than useless. [/QUOTE] I have around a dozen engineers working for me (well people with engineering degrees - some maintain their PEs, some don’t). There are separate rankings for different majors. [http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools](http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools) eta: That said, I typically rely on the the word of my employees when hiring outside of my area of expertise. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/34 "2013-03-21T11:18:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There is a New York University and it’s a respected school. But its affiliation is with the city of New York not the state. No, New York University (NYU) in Greenwich Village is not run by the city of New York- it’s a private college. As others have noted, the city operates the CUNY system, which includes a bunch of schools (CCNY, Hunter, Baruch, John Jay, Queens College,and Lehman, among them). ---
**Author:** ![jacobsta811](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jacobsta811/32/2893_2.png) [@jacobsta811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobsta811)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/35 "2013-03-21T12:05:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No “in effect” necessary. The full name of the school is “Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.” Hey, if you’re going to allow that, why not choose The College of New Jersey instead. That is only one word off from the OP 🙂 (Formerly trenton state college) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/36 "2013-03-21T15:34:07Z")
All right, to pick up on Darth Panda’s point… A lot depends on WHAT you want to do and WHERE you want to do it. If you aspire to being a partner at a major New York law firm, then yes- it makes a huge difference what school you go to. Even IF you could learn just as much at Fordham or Rutgers as you could at Princeton or Yale (and you probably could), you have to know that a Princeton or Yale degree is FAR more likely to get you an interview and a job at that Wall Street law firm. If you hope to be a Supreme Court justice some day, same principle applies. A Harvard law degree can get you there; a University of North Carolina law degree probably can’t. If you want to be a mover and shaker at Goldman Sachs, a Wharton MBA will get you farther than a Penn State MBA. Whether that’s fair or not is irrelevant- it just happens to be true. If your ambitions are different, if you plan on a different career field or plan to work in a different locale, you might make a different choice. If you hope to become a big shot at a Houston or Dallas law firm, a degree from U.T. won’t hurt you and might help you. If you’re planning to move to a big city in the Northeast, an Ivy League degree carries a lot more weight than a State U. degree, and the added tuition may be a good investment. But that’s not true everywhere. If you’re planning on living and working closer to home, a state school may give you just the skills a you need at a good price, and may even provide you some networking opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/37 "2013-03-21T15:42:52Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > While there’s no “University of New York,” there is a state university system with numerous campuses. Look for SUNY (State University of New York). By almost all accounts, SUNY-Binghamton is the most academically respected and prestigious branch. It is? Buffalo and Stony Brook are both AAU members, while Binghamton is not. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/38 "2013-03-21T16:37:56Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > There is, however, a huge difference in earning potential between the 10th or 20th and the 50th or 60th - especially when looking at professional school, such as an MBA or JD (of which I have both). People may ignore this if they want to, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to advise them to do so. You’ve moved the goalposts and in exactly the way I complained about the question being too vague to answer. Ranking graduate schools in a specific discipline is a complete different exercise than ranking all schools as the totality of their teaching. But I don’t buy in to the scam even there. The US News rankings doesn’t even bother to rank all the graduate schools. There are about 500 MBA programs, but the rankings only list the “top 100,” whatever that could possibly mean. Do you really reject someone from Price at Oklahoma because it’s not in the top ten with Haas at Berkeley? And if you do, wouldn’t you do so even if there were no rankings just by hearing Oklahoma and Berkeley? And how do you judge between the unranked schools at all? Do they get thrown out prima facie? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/39 "2013-03-21T18:24:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You’ve moved the goalposts and in exactly the way I complained about the question being too vague to answer. Ranking graduate schools in a specific discipline is a complete different exercise than ranking all schools as the totality of their teaching. > > But I don’t buy in to the scam even there. The US News rankings doesn’t even bother to rank all the graduate schools. There are about 500 MBA programs, but the rankings only list the “top 100,” whatever that could possibly mean. Do you really reject someone from Price at Oklahoma because it’s not in the top ten with Haas at Berkeley? And if you do, wouldn’t you do so even if there were no rankings just by hearing Oklahoma and Berkeley? And how do you judge between the unranked schools at all? Do they get thrown out prima facie? I’m not arguing that the rankings are good - they’re not, IMO. But we just don’t have a whole lot else to go on sometimes. And as far as unranked schools go - yes, those candidates are thrown out. I do have an org of slightly less skilled workers now and getting used to that is a little different for me. In general, all of my people have grad degrees from top schools. Prior to last summer, I never had any employees making less than 6 digits. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480/40 "2013-03-21T18:28:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > For Florida, would you use Florida State University (the state’s oldest public university), the University of Florida (the most prestigious), or the University of Central Florida (the largest)? The University of Florida, of course! FSU, by the way, is only the “oldest” because they backdated themselves six years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-of-state-ranking/653480.md?page=3)