# University shooting massacre averted in the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 27, 2015, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680 "2015-09-27T10:40:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/41 "2015-09-27T18:23:08Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I think it is very clear what you think of our gun laws. BTW did you know that possession of a bladed weapon on the street without good reason is a criminal offence here too, in fact, possession of any offensive weapon without good cause is a criminal offence. My God, what terrible people we are for trying to keep dangerous weapons off our streets! > :::: snip::: > > but guess what, I actually don’t know enough about these subjects to comment upon matters that concern a foreign country. > > Oh I forgot - you didn’t realise you are a foreigner as far as I am concerned - and I forgot, you have the right to make uninformed and inaccurate statements about another country that is foreign to you. > > Perspective or lack of it, say what As a member of the SDMB and a regular ( ??? ) reader of same, I wonder why your opinion of the restraint of the the England based posters is not in fact true. "Not going to post criticism of the US weapon laws??? " Bawahahahaha Total lack of understanding the historic, cultural and philosophy’s of the two countries seems to run rampant over there. Much more so than the reverse in my selected reading of the SDMB. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/42 "2015-09-27T18:34:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The bit where just possessing (not using, not attempting to use, possessing) one gun and some pipe bombs, and some rants on Facebook gets you life in prison. > > That is just scary. Glad I don’t live in the UK. Do us a favour and possess some guns, pipe bombs, and make rant on social media about how you intend to attack your old alma mater, in US or Israel (or whereever you currently live). Do tell us how the authorities react. :rolleyes: I have lost count of the number of times US or US based posters have loudly proclaimed that a certain crime or actiuon in one country would “never be an offenc or allowed in the US”, only to be told by legally qualified US dopers, that actually, no, that would be perfectly fine ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/43 "2015-09-27T18:45:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Do us a favour and possess some guns, pipe bombs, and make rant on social media about how you intend to attack your old alma mater, in US or Israel (or whereever you currently live). > > Do tell us how the authorities react. > > :rolleyes: > > I have lost count of the number of times US or US based posters have loudly proclaimed that a certain crime or actiuon in one country would “never be an offenc or allowed in the US”, only to be told by legally qualified US dopers, that actually, no, that would be perfectly fine There is quite a gap between “authorities reacting” and “life in prison”. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/44 "2015-09-27T19:04:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is quite a gap between “authorities reacting” and “life in prison”. He’s not going to spend his life in prison, he’s going to spend 8 years in prison, if he keeps his head down, and he’s going to be on licence for the rest of his life. He gathered an illegal arsenal of weapons and made plans to kill people with them. ETA, from the link, “Lyburd was warned the psychiatric evidence suggested it might be a “very long time indeed” before he is considered safe enough to be released.”, so it may be longer than 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/45 "2015-09-27T19:07:51Z")
Terr, dude, even in the States, you need a Federal license to build and/or possess explosives. For what reason, other than violent destruction would you need to build 4 pipe bombs right away? Add on top all the incredibly damning circumstantial and actual evidence, along with an alleged confession, yeh, life in prison sounds about right. Even in the States. Which in some States only means 20 years, not literally the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/46 "2015-09-27T19:29:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is quite a gap between “authorities reacting” and “life in prison”. Please acquaint yourself with England and Wales sentencing policy. The kid has an 8 year tariff on a life licence. That’s a) about right for the offences committed, and b) a sentencing decision by the judge that this chucklefuck might be an ongoing danger to the public. How his life pans out very much depends on his future behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/47 "2015-09-27T20:28:48Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Terr, dude, even in the States, you need a Federal license to build and/or possess explosives. > > For what reason, other than violent destruction would you need to build 4 pipe bombs right away? > > Add on top all the incredibly damning circumstantial and actual evidence, along with an alleged confession, yeh, life in prison sounds about right. Even in the States. Which in some States only means 20 years, not literally the rest of your life. There was no “alleged confession”. Here is Lyburd at the trial: "I was a troll. To be a troll is to say something to get a reaction out of people. It’s childish and immature. I wanted people to panic a little bit, to believe I was going to do something. I wanted them to be tearing their hair out thinking I was going to do something. … I was lonely. I just wanted people to talk to me." If you think that would get him life in prison in the US (and yes, life in prison here doesn’t necessarily mean he is not going to get released either), cite the law under which that is possible. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/48 "2015-09-27T20:45:11Z")
He might have used that as his defence, clearly the jury didn’t believe him, something must have convinced them otherwise, what do you think that might have been…evidence? Oh, of course, the US does not use evidence in court and that’s why you are not familiar with the concept, and naturally when a criminal later denies something, well its always going to be true isn’t it? I’ll bet you are surprised to discover that criminals sometimes lie, yes, even in court, its disappointing I know but these criminals just seem to let their standards slip these days, when I was a kid you always knew who a criminal was, they all loved their mothers too, you could \* trust\* a criminal back then, these days they seem to have no morals at all. ::::::::::::sigh::::::::: the good old days You might also be interested to know, that given he is on an 8 year sentence, he will do four, and if he behaves he might get parole and reduce that. He will be on licence upon release for the remainder of the time not in prison. Hey **Guns** I guess I need a sarcasm smiley, you obviously didn’t pick it up. Me? Criticise US gun laws, what me? would I? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/49 "2015-09-27T20:47:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There was no “alleged confession”. Here is Lyburd at the trial: > > "I was a troll. To be a troll is to say something to get a reaction out of people. > > It’s childish and immature. I wanted people to panic a little bit, to believe I was going to do something. I wanted them to be tearing their hair out thinking I was going to do something. > … > I was lonely. I just wanted people to talk to me." > > If you think that would get him life in prison in the US (and yes, life in prison here doesn’t necessarily mean he is not going to get released either), cite the law under which that is possible. I meant a life sentence in the UK sounds about right. As for what the prosecution might be for him in the States, that’s harder to pin down (since it depends on which State he was in). Our gun laws are, of course, more lax. Though he’d be charged with possession of a gun without a license. Now, the more meatier offence of building a pipe bomb(s) with intent to use, I found [this cite:](http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/5trg1-penalty-possesing-pipe-bomb-without-intent.html) > [@](#): > > Generally possession/making of a pipe bomb/explosive device in itself would demonstrate intent to use it, as there is no practical household use for the pipe bomb. > > Offenders are punishable by imprisonment for not more than 20 years, and fine of > not more than $250,000 ($500,000 if the offense is an organization), 18 U.S.C. 844(a)(2); > 3571. > > This can turn into major federal felony and are prosecuted extremely aggressively by the Federal Government in light of the foreign and domestic terrorist threats. Yeh. Not looking good. So, mix in all the fun stuff, like conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism/murder and it makes for a good amount of Federal prison time. ---
**Author:** ![kunlun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/848f3c/32.png) [@kunlun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kunlun)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/50 "2015-09-27T20:58:16Z")
To all the people who are so sympathetic with this poor man, consider this instead - if he had instead been preparing to kill your family, would you want the prosecution to go easy on him? What if he had a grudge against his ex-girlfriend, and that ex-girlfriend happened to be your daughter? These are real lives, and he’s a real threat. In my eyes his freedom is worth less than the absence of that threat, so remove him from society. And this is certainly more than a thought crime. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/51 "2015-09-27T21:04:27Z")
So four pipe bombs at US twenty years per and run consecutively is 80 years, and we still haven’t got to the guns yet. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/52 "2015-09-27T21:04:45Z")
“Attempted murder”. Bah! What is that? Is there a Nobel Prize for Attempted Chemistry? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/53 "2015-09-27T21:20:50Z")
**Terr** thinks of it more as performance art. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/54 "2015-09-27T21:40:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wait a second. Sentenced to **LIFE in prison** for “possessing an arsenal of weapons including pipe bombs and a [that is, 1?] gun, with intent to endanger life”? > > Wow. There is your “Minority Report” dystopia coming to life. > [@chaika](#): > > If I had my way, no ordinary citizen would be able to possess a gun. Yes, I really would like to take away your guns, Mr. NRA. The UK has much more sensible laws regarding gun ownership than the U.S. does IMO. I have no issue whatsoever with weapons charges leveled against this wing-nut. > > But that doesn’t change my view about the very troubling notion of possibly keeping him locked up for life based on some loony rants. That particular slope is far too slippery for me. > [@Terr](#): > > Because we don’t live in “1984” word and we don’t have “thoughtcrime” - yet. But with people like some respondents in this thread, we’re definitely moving towards it. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Size of half a stick of dynamite. Count in the metal shell that fragments. Wanna hold on in your lap when it detonates? There is ample proof that he was plotting mass murder. There is a wide legal difference between showing state of mind (thought-crime) and establishing Intent (individual equivalent of “conspiracy”) The pipe bombs were fully weaponized, with nails taped to the outside for maximum loss of life. There is no other purpose for this modification. The bullets were hollow point expanding bullets. These bullets are not made to defend, stop, or wound. They are specifically engineered to cause death wherever they enter the body. You could only make them more lethal by adding poison to the load. > [@](#): > > Lyburd admitted nine charges relating to making five pipe bombs, two home-made explosive devices, possessing a 9mm Luger Calibre Glock gun, 94 jacketed hollow point expanding bullets, and CS gas. Part of a file he had written then deleted, which was recovered from his computer: > [@](#): > > . . .experts recovered the contents, including a note that said: "I’ll get my power back today haha… You ruined my whole life, don’t expect me to show any mercy today. No-one disrespects me and gets away with it. I will teach you a little lesson on respect with my 9mm hollow points ;). > > “It’s time for extreme civil disobedience. Fantasy will become reality for sure. Where the mind goes the body will follow and yes, people will die there’s no question about that.” You gotta love the winky emoticon. :eek: Here’s another sterling character reference: > [@](#): > > When his house was raided he had not been outside for months, but lived off takeaways which he paid for with other people’s Paypal accounts. > > He corresponded with people online, discussing plans to carry out a massacre and praising US high school shooters and the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik. I expect that he will serve his time in prison and then be remanded to a mental institution, which he will never leave. The UK wisely does not return violent sociopaths to the public. I’m all for it. ETA: Somebody please fight my ignorance. What would have been the purpose of the CS gas? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/55 "2015-09-27T22:07:12Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I expect that he will serve his time in prison and then be remanded to a mental institution, which he will never leave. The UK system allows, on the basis of being a grave and immediate danger to the public, for indefinite confinement in a secure hospital. This sentence isn’t that, but the possibility is likely there at the back of the judge’s mind in this case. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/56 "2015-09-27T22:23:53Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > … > > ETA: Somebody please fight my ignorance. What would have been the purpose of the CS gas? Well, that’s tear gas, right? Use it on any resistance or crowds for easier targets and maximum carnage, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/57 "2015-09-27T23:21:08Z")
Am I the only person who saw the significance of the final line of the news story linked in the OP? > [@](#): > > He laughed as he was taken away by police, telling officers they had saved lives and prevented what would have otherwise been a massacre at the college. Sounds like he out-and-out confessed after he was sentenced to me. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/58 "2015-09-27T23:27:02Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I meant a life sentence in the UK sounds about right. > > As for what the prosecution might be for him in the States, that’s harder to pin down (since it depends on which State he was in). Our gun laws are, of course, more lax. Though he’d be charged with possession of a gun without a license. Now, the more meatier offence of building a pipe bomb(s) with intent to use, I found [this cite:](http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/5trg1-penalty-possesing-pipe-bomb-without-intent.html) > > Yeh. Not looking good. So, mix in all the fun stuff, like conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism/murder and it makes for a good amount of Federal prison time. There was no “conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism/murder”, by definition. Anyway, here’s an example: [KKK leader, built and detonated multiple pipe bombs, instructed people how to build them, witness tampering, etc. etc. Sentenced on 7 counts to 12 years imprisonment, followed by 3 years of probation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wayne_Hull) - which is the equivalent of 8 years if reduced because of good behavior. See, that is a reasonable sentence. The sentence of [“life with a minimum term of eight years”](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-34359392) for building some pipe bombs and possession of a weapon, and rants, by someone with such hangups that he could not step outside his apartment for months, with no _action_ at all is ridiculously overblown. But then, it’s UK. IIRC, they sentenced to prison for two years an 88 year old man who was caring for his housebound wife - for having a 124-year-old shotgun (that he had a license for), loaded, in his car. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/59 "2015-09-27T23:30:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There was no “conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism/murder”, by definition. Anyway, here’s an example: > > [KKK leader, built and detonated multiple pipe bombs, instructed people how to build them, witness tampering, etc. etc. Sentenced on 7 counts to 12 years imprisonment, followed by 3 years of probation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wayne_Hull) - which is the equivalent of 8 years if reduced because of good behavior. > > See, that is a reasonable sentence. > > The sentence of [“life with a minimum term of eight years”](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-34359392) for building some pipe bombs and possession of a weapon, and rants, by someone with such hangups that he could not step outside his apartment for months, with no _action_ at all is ridiculously overblown. But then, it’s UK. IIRC, they sentenced to prison for two years an 88 year old man who was caring for his housebound wife - for having a 124-year-old shotgun (that he had a license for), loaded, in his car. So you’re saying you’re soft on crime? Welcome to LiberalLand. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680/60 "2015-09-28T00:29:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There was no “conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism/murder”, by definition. Anyway, here’s an example: > > [KKK leader, built and detonated multiple pipe bombs, instructed people how to build them, witness tampering, etc. etc. Sentenced on 7 counts to 12 years imprisonment, followed by 3 years of probation.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wayne_Hull) - which is the equivalent of 8 years if reduced because of good behavior. > > See, that is a reasonable sentence. > > The sentence of [“life with a minimum term of eight years”](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-34359392) for building some pipe bombs and possession of a weapon, and rants, by someone with such hangups that he could not step outside his apartment for months, with no _action_ at all is ridiculously overblown. But then, it’s UK. IIRC, they sentenced to prison for two years an 88 year old man who was caring for his housebound wife - for having a 124-year-old shotgun (that he had a license for), loaded, in his car. That’s wonderful news! Do you know if he babysits? We’re looking for a good sitter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-shooting-massacre-averted-in-the-uk/732680.md?page=4)