# University violates its pledge of confidentiality over a homophobic remark. Thoughts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271 "2008-01-20T16:58:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/1 "2008-01-20T16:58:10Z")
[Here’s the link to the NYT Magazine “Ethicist” column which inspired this thread.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20wwln-ethicist-t.html?ei=5088&en=fc767ca965b18d82&ex=1358485200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all) Here’s the sitch. An unnamed university requires its students to evaluate their instructors at the end of each term and, to encourage candor, promises anonymity. One student, in evaluating a presumably lesbian professor, insults her orientation in his evaluation, and the university hires a handwriting expert to track him down. The student is reprimanded, required to write a letter of apology, and possibly obliged to enroll in a tolerance course. Thoughts? I myself think the university is dishonorable. Moreover, by violating their pledge, they fuel the fire of persons who believe that liberals want to control the thoughts of others, and inadvertently hurt the cause they are trying to support. Anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/2 "2008-01-20T17:13:07Z")
I agree. With you, I mean, not the university. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/3 "2008-01-20T17:14:39Z")
My immediate thought would be to hope that the student has a rich parent with greedy lawyers. This would make an interesting case to drag through the courts, and the more money it cost the university, the better. Of course, I’m for suing the pants off any university that enacts any sort of “thought-control” rules anyway. Free speech is free speech, and if I want to say something racist at somebody else, that is my right. It shows me to be an asshole, but that’s also something that is my right. OTOH, the university has the right to kick anybody out that breaks their rules. Sorta. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/4 "2008-01-20T17:15:19Z")
This case if true should have received media attention. You need a better link. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/5 "2008-01-20T17:16:56Z")
My thoughts are that this is complete bullshit. I can’t stand homophobic people–they rank right up there with racists–but there is no fucking way the university is morally justified for them to violate the confidentiality of this student. I think my particularly strong feelings about homophobia actually make me more outraged about this than I would normally be. Usually these efforts backfire. Seriously, if you were the kid in question, would having your privacy violated in the name of ‘‘tolerance’’ and being forced to write an apology you were morally opposed to really bring you any closer to accepting homosexuality? You can’t fight bigotry this way… and even if you could, it wouldn’t be justified. Students should feel they can write their feelings and opinions about a teacher freely without fear of retaliation. The student in questions broke no laws, made no threats, and therefore should NEVER have been tracked down. I think the school should somehow be castigated. ETA: My apologies for ranting… I thought this was in the Pit. Anyways, my thoughts are essentially the same, just with less swearing. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/6 "2008-01-20T17:28:32Z")
I’d like to see more information before I grab the pitchforks and torches. We don’t even know the name of the University where this supposedly happened. All we have is an anonymous person making a claim in an advice column. There could be a lot more to the story. In fact it could be fiction. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/7 "2008-01-20T17:33:33Z")
I agree, **olivesmarch4th**. I’ve never understood why ANY coerced “apology” is useful. Even with toddlers, it’s like nails on chalkboard when I hear a parent say, “Now tell him you’re sorry!” Um, no, the kid’s not sorry. All you’ve taught him is that lying is good. I’ll say, “Would you like to say you’re sorry?” or “I think you ought to apologize,” but a forced apology is no apology. Oh, and the anonymity thing? Stupid. Haven’t they undone decades of work here - now students are going to go right back to leaving meaningless evaluations because they know they can be tracked down, anonymity or no. If there were THREATS in the eval, that’s another story. Any student making threats in a class evaluation is breaking the deal by doing that - the evaluation is for remarks about the class and the teaching of the class. Go outside of that and you’ve, IMHO, discarded your right to anonymity. Anonymity for _class evaluations_ was promised, not anonymity for threats. But an insult is not a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/8 "2008-01-20T17:43:25Z")
And now…[the _rest_ of the story.](http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Organizations/u/university_of_georgia/index.html) (third article down.) Also, [here.](http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/10/22/News/Student.Cited.For.Survey.Remarks-3045812.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/9 "2008-01-20T17:44:14Z")
Looks like a waste of time and a breach of the concept of anonymity not to mention free speech. The comments may have been relevant to the teacher’s ability to teach. If she were using her class to promote a personal agenda or openly discriminate based on sexuality then suppressing the comments could put the University at financial risk. I had a particularly obnoxious math teacher in college who managed to piss off most of his class. A number of us went to the Dean and read him the riot act. The teacher was removed. I expect my money’s worth from teachers just as they would from any other professional. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/10 "2008-01-20T17:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] My thoughts are that this is complete bullshit. I can’t stand homophobic people–they rank right up there with racists–but there is no fucking way the university is morally justified for them to violate the confidentiality of this student. I think my particularly strong feelings about homophobia actually make me more outraged about this than I would normally be. Usually these efforts backfire. Seriously, if you were the kid in question, would having your privacy violated in the name of ‘‘tolerance’’ and being forced to write an apology you were morally opposed to really bring you any closer to accepting homosexuality? You can’t fight bigotry this way… and even if you could, it wouldn’t be justified. Students should feel they can write their feelings and opinions about a teacher freely without fear of retaliation. The student in questions broke no laws, made no threats, and therefore should NEVER have been tracked down. I think the school should somehow be castigated. ETA: My apologies for ranting… I thought this was in the Pit. Anyways, my thoughts are essentially the same, just with less swearing. [/QUOTE] Don’t apologize, **olives** , your rant is entirely justified. I too hate homophobia, but I happen to work in an academic library, and this sort of thing pisses me off to no end. Aside from the fact that the university is acting in a dishonorable manner by going back on its word, have we forgotten that the entire purpose of a liberal arts education is to teach students through the free expression of ideologies and opinions? Giving students the chance to speak their minds? A derogatory comment should be studied, dissected, and taken apart using the principles of debate and logic; it should not be suppressed by administrative action against the student. If students are not allowed to do this, then why have a liberal arts program in the first place? Send them off to business school or a science institute. Liberal arts degrees are for broadening the students’ minds, and administrative policies and actions like these are in direct conflict with this goal. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/11 "2008-01-20T17:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And now..[the _rest_ of the story.](http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Organizations/u/university_of_georgia/index.html) (third article down.) Also, [here.](http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/10/22/News/Student.Cited.For.Survey.Remarks-3045812.shtml) [/QUOTE] I bow at your Google-fu. There willbe a place for you in my regime once I am God-King. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/12 "2008-01-20T17:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And now..[the _rest_ of the story.](http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Organizations/u/university_of_georgia/index.html) (third article down.) Also, [here.](http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/10/22/News/Student.Cited.For.Survey.Remarks-3045812.shtml) [/QUOTE] Thanks. I withdraw my comment #6 above. The student sounds like a complete tool, but he was promised anonimity. He didn’t make any death threats–“I hope you die” is different from “I am going to kill you”–and his anonimity shouldn’t have been breached. It shouldn’t have been breached if he’d written “N—ggers shouldn’t teach in Georgia,” as reprehensible as that would have been. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/13 "2008-01-20T17:56:50Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And now..[the _rest_ of the story.](http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Organizations/u/university_of_georgia/index.html) (third article down.) Also, [here.](http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/10/22/News/Student.Cited.For.Survey.Remarks-3045812.shtml) [/QUOTE] Doesn’t paint a very nice picture of the student but it’s a stretch on the universities part to say he threatened the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/14 "2008-01-20T17:57:47Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] And now..[the _rest_ of the story.](http://www.usnews.com/Topics/tag/Organizations/u/university_of_georgia/index.html) (third article down.) Also, [here.](http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/10/22/News/Student.Cited.For.Survey.Remarks-3045812.shtml) [/QUOTE] Yikes, allow me to retract some of my vitriol as well. This muddies the situation. Could this be considered a death threat or harrassment? Was there sufficient concern? I probably jumped the gun in my post above. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/15 "2008-01-20T18:04:21Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] Yikes, allow me to retract some of my vitriol as well. This muddies the situation. Could this be considered a death threat or harrassment? Was there sufficient concern? I probably jumped the gun in my post above. [/QUOTE] Still . . . a 1,200 word essay? If this was real harassment, shouldn’t they have expelled him? And if not, my previous comments stand. This guy Beck sounds like a pluperfect fuckhead, but violating his privacy and your promise of anonymity in the absence of harassment or threats is not how it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/16 "2008-01-20T18:05:10Z")
It looks like the student himself violated some policies. A promise of anonymity does not mean that a student should be permitted to violate school policies with hate speech or violate the law with death threats. Fuck this guy. There’s no coward more despicable than an anonymous coward. I’m glad one of them got caught. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/17 "2008-01-20T18:13:16Z")
I too question whether it’s a real incident or not. It sounds like a “political correctness run amok” type urban legend. Kind of like the “back in the african-american” story. (Which is apparently true. But still.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/18 "2008-01-20T18:17:05Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I too question whether it’s a real incident or not. It sounds like a “political correctness run amok” type urban legend. Kind of like the “back in the african-american” story. (Which is apparently true. But still.) [/QUOTE] Please see post #8. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/19 "2008-01-20T18:20:49Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It looks like the student himself violated some policies. A promise of anonymity does not mean that a student should be permitted to violate school policies with hate speech or violate the law with death threats. Fuck this guy. There’s no coward more despicable than an anonymous coward. I’m glad one of them got caught. [/QUOTE] I see no death threat. I understand that the instructor found the nonsense upsetting, but “I hope you choke” does not come close to “I will choke you” or even “Your cat might die” in terms of threats. The instructor was wrong to pursue his vendetta and the the school was wrong to facilitate his actions. * * * BTW, has anyone figured out why the “lesbian” of the OP’s link became “Joseph” with the constant use of masculine pronouns? Was the first based on a rumor or deliberately obscured to protect “The Ethicist”'s involvement in discussing the case or are there two separate events going on, here? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271/20 "2008-01-20T18:26:17Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Thanks. I withdraw my comment #6 above. The student sounds like a complete tool, but he was promised anonimity. He didn’t make any death threats–“I hope you die” is different from “I am going to kill you”–and his anonimity shouldn’t have been breached. It shouldn’t have been breached if he’d written “N—ggers shouldn’t teach in Georgia,” as reprehensible as that would have been. [/QUOTE] I totally agree. “I hope you die from AIDS” is not a death threat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/university-violates-its-pledge-of-confidentiality-over-a-homophobic-remark-thoughts/434271.md?page=2)