# Unlearned equations popping up in a class that's supposed to not be mathematical. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764 "2004-04-01T17:41:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/41 "2004-04-02T20:47:30Z")
Jeeze, **TaxGuy** , calm the hell down there. It’s not like **Grey** was comparing your mother to a syphilitic goat-blowing whore or something. Just cause it’s the Pit and we can act like assholes all we want doesn’t mean we _have_ to. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/42 "2004-04-02T21:04:00Z")
> [@TaxGuy](#): > > Jesus, this is the pit people, we can’t let this assholery slide by! > > …now people pay me more per hour to explain federal income tax law to them than I’d wager you make all day… > > … > > So you can take your sanctimonious attitude and stuff it, pal. Well, _if_ **Grey** was being an asshole, at least you apparently have what it takes to do it properly. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/43 "2004-04-02T21:18:37Z")
> [@TaxGuy](#): > > I took the highest level of math offered at my high school (Calculus BC) and got the highest grade on the AP test (thus testing out of my entire university math requirement), majored in Sociology (so I took several stat classes) and then went to law school, and now people pay me more per hour to explain federal income tax law to them than I’d wager you make all day, and I don’t remember the formula for shit. It’d take me a while to figure out the surface area of a freakin’ triangle (oooh, one third base times height?–do I get a cookie, Grey? asshole). How about a quizzical look and a cold cloth. You need to relax before that funny vein pops. Let’s chalk it up to tax season. I also pointed out that the guy should talk to his undergrad advisor which might mitigate my “assholeness”. How about you argue why any university level course _shouldn’t_ implicity assume high school math/English/biology/geography etc knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/44 "2004-04-02T21:20:09Z")
Which brings to mind why I checked back in. Did **Only Mostly Dead** ever get any feedback from the Prof or his advisor? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/45 "2004-04-02T22:21:20Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > The final exam (essay) involved comparing the field research that the professor himself had done and we had been studying to, to the Leakeys (Mary and Richard IIRC). Well, jeeze, any moron knows that the correct answer would have required no knowledge of the Leakeys at all as their work was made worthless by the contributions made by Dr Pomposity. 😉 As for the CRC, the Handbook of Red Rubber Balls, and the other references cluttering the desks of engineers, these exist because YOU SHOULD LOOK UP FORMULAE EVERY TIME YOU USE THEM. There is no room for guesswork or “I think it is…” in Engineering. Look it up and make sure. Now we just have to get the manufacturers of red rubber balls to keep their specifications the same until the next edition comes out. Until then I keep [redrubberballs.com](http://redrubberballs.com) bookmarked and pray they at least keep THAT current. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/46 "2004-04-02T22:40:11Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > YOU SHOULD LOOK UP FORMULAE EVERY TIME YOU USE THEM. There is no room for guesswork or “I think it is…” in Engineering. Look it up and make sure. Damn straight. Just ask the folks at [NASA](http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric/). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/47 "2004-04-02T23:18:27Z")
Yeah, the professor sounds like an ass. I’m assuming it was part of a larger question, and is most likely reduced to “now that you have this answer as your radius, plug it into the sphere equation.” This is what my old math teacher called plugging-and-chugging, and he intentionally avoided it on his tests. “Less [makes rapid motions of typing on your calculator] and more [points to his head],” he would say. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/48 "2004-04-03T02:41:04Z")
I expect the course was not open to astronomers because they already know the answer: 42. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/49 "2004-04-06T13:59:22Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I think high school algebra counts as a pre-req for a university level course. :rolleyes: Even so, how often do you use the volume of a sphere in an algebra class? It never came up in my HS algebra class. I didn’t do well in that, but since then I’ve studied some college algebra on my own, and it didn’t come up there either. As basic as it is, it’s still not one of the fundamentals of mathematics, like, say, counting and comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/50 "2004-04-06T14:31:59Z")
Fine. The volume of spheres, cubes and prisms can now be safely locked away and not asked for in college without a cheat sheet there to help you. The safety of ignorance is assured. :rolleyes: Anyway, any luck yet with the Prof or advisor **Only Mostly Dead**? ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/51 "2004-04-06T15:22:06Z")
**Grey** , thanks for providing some, but additional proof of your idiocy is not really necessary. No one is saying that no college course should ask for the volume of a sphere, only that a college course that specifically says it will not involve math should not penalize students for not knowing the volume of a sphere. Also, more generally, just because you know something doesn’t mean other people are stupid for not knowing it. ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/52 "2004-04-06T15:23:43Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Fine. The volume of spheres, cubes and prisms can now be safely locked away and not asked for in college without a cheat sheet there to help you. The safety of ignorance is assured. :rolleyes: > > \*\*? ``` Really? ``` Can you tell me, without looking them up, the significance of the dates: 1066 1215 Dec 7 1941 Nov 22, 1963 ``` To anyone studing history, all of these are basic things you should have learned in high school. My point is, what may be considerd basic knowledge in a field, may not be considered such in another. When I went back to college to get my undergrad degree, it had been more than ten years since high school. I had to take "bonehead" math, simply because such things as the volumes of sphere, cubes and prisims had slipped out of my head. Don't assume that even "basic " facts that a person does not use every day, or that do not relate to that person's field of study or employment, will stay in their head thoughout their lifetime. I agree with the op. It would be fair for a professor to assume that major in the field would know the formulas. In a non-major class if you want to test this knowledge, you need to at least tell the students that they will need to refresh their knowledge of the needed formulas. ``` ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/53 "2004-04-06T15:36:58Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Fine. The volume of spheres, cubes and prisms can now be safely locked away and not asked for in college without a cheat sheet there to help you. The safety of ignorance is assured. :rolleyes: Don’t be needlessly insulting. Not memorizing formulas is not “ignorance”. Not understanding how to _apply_ them, yes; that is ignorance, but there’s no real reason to memorize them. I’m an engineer. I’ve got a PhD, as a matter of fact. I work with geometry every day. I happen to have memorized a slew of geometric formulas. Not because I made an effort to memorize them, they’re the ones that I use most often. And do you know what I do when I can’t remember, say, the formula for the volume of a sphere? I don’t bewail my “ignorance”. I take fifteen seconds and I _look the Goddamn thing up_. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/54 "2004-04-06T15:47:22Z")
**Sweetums** I got all of them, even the American history bits and I did Electrical Engineering and Physics in Canada. Honest. Now I’ve been out for 14 years or so, perhaps my views of what was expected are exaggerated, but at the same time, people claiming that they can’t remember what the formula is may also have their memories coloured by time. At this point it doesn’t really matter any more. > [@TaxGuy](#): > > Also, more generally, just because you know something doesn’t mean other people are stupid for not knowing it. Fair enough, though I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of _not_ knowing it. Obviously that’s my problem. ---
**Author:** ![Engel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/53a042/32.png) [@Engel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Engel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764/55 "2004-04-06T16:19:46Z")
Well, add me to the list of people whose eyes glazed over as soon as the math equations started flying! I have never been mathematically inclined, and am very happy that I can manage balancing my checkbook. Anything beyond that and I’m pretty lost. Sure, I can probably figure out the area and volume of simple stuff like squares, rectangles and cubes if you give me enough time and scratch paper, but circles and spheres?? You’ve got to be kidding me! Sorry, folks, but there’s a reason I have two degrees in the arts but avoided math-related classes like the plague during college and grad school. Once I took the **one** math class **required** by my college I happily never looked back, and (like many people) have only retained what little math I need to function in life. **Only Mostly Dead** , your professor is an ass and has obviously spent **way** too much time in the rarified air of his own department if his response to your confusion about the equation was “everyone should know it.” Sure, every Math or Astronomy major should probably know it, but non-majors who have had no warning? Please! And making it the first part of a series of questions? BZZZ! Do not pass go, do not collect tenure! Definitely bring this to the attention of your advisor, **OMD** , and discuss whether you should bring it to the attention of the professor’s department. It may be that he just isn’t the right person to teach a non-major class in his field. There are some people who are just brilliant at their fields and can easily connect with students in their fields, but can’t understand where students from other fields are coming from. And it sounds like your professor is one of them. I speak from bitter experience, although from the viewpoint of a Graduate Assistant, rather than student: I GA’ed for a Theatre 101 class that was so difficult it would’ve given theatre **majors** fits. The **non** -majors (who the class was supposed to be aimed at) were completely lost, and we GA’s could only do so much to mitigate the professor’s assholery. Thankfully it was the last semester he taught that particular class. He was a great theatre artist, but had absolutely no idea how to teach the material to people who hadn’t been taking theatre classes since High School. Anyway, enough of my flashbacks! 😉 How did you do on the test? Good luck with the rest of the semester! Engel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlearned-equations-popping-up-in-a-class-thats-supposed-to-not-be-mathematical/237764.md?page=2)