# Unlikely things in an infinite universe **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535 "2005-06-16T13:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/21 "2005-06-16T18:24:29Z")
Perhaps the 747 is not the best example. I don’t reject that so specifically but the notion that any object imaginable would eventually exist in an infinite universe. In many cases there will be forces working against specific arrangements of atoms such as gravity and magnetism. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/22 "2005-06-16T18:31:17Z")
Suppose you’re one of the infinite number of explorers searching the infinite universe and stumble across the highly improbable, naturally-grown VW Bug somewhere. And it’s the wrong color. How bummed would you be? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jawdirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@jawdirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jawdirk)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/23 "2005-06-16T18:38:55Z")
> [@FlippyFly](#): > > … so do VW bugs grow on some planet somewhere? But they grow right here on Earth. If you’re going to be picky about how they arise, (you have something against automated assembly lines?) then you’d better include that in your question. Here on Earth, there is a giant plant called Volkswagen, with roots deep in the iron and aluminum mines, and fruit-bearing branches in every VW dealership. ---
**Author:** ![daffyduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@daffyduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daffyduck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/24 "2005-06-16T18:40:50Z")
If you accept that the laws of physics are the same everywhere, then not all things are possible in an infinite universe. There is zero probabilty that you can violate the relationship between mass, force and acceleration, for instance. The relationship between mass, force and acceleration isn’t a theory, it is an observable fact about the fundamental nature of the universe. If you accept that, then no matter where you look, you aren’t going to find a place where the ball goes slower the harder you throw it… even in an infinite universe. Of course if you’re writing a book and you get to make the rules of how your universe works, then yeah, anything is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/25 "2005-06-16T19:13:03Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > They don’t actually grow—they’re being assembled by an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of monkey wrenches, right next door to the monkeys that are typing Shakespeare. If anyone was ever in need of unionization, it’s the monkeys working on the infinite projects! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/26 "2005-06-16T19:29:33Z")
> [@FlippyFly](#): > > This got me thinking. The logic seems solid enough… as improbable as anything seems, if there is a non-zero chance of it occurring, than in an infinite universe, it will occur… so do VW bugs grow on some planet somewhere? It’s certainly possible. The problem is (if we’re assuming the VW Bug in question is a fruit or an offspring of an organism) that it will be evolved so as to reproduce…so you’ll leave it in the garage for the night and come back in the morning with a Bug-shaped husk, a lot of dust and metal shavings, and a trail leading out the back door and down into the sewer system, where the hideous offspring of _Volkswagonus bugiens novas_, along with _Pontiacus granturismois_ and _Toyotus highlanderis_ are plotting to overthrough their puny ape-descended masters, who are so amazingly primative that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea. You don’t even want to imagine two VW Bugs in heat. And think about the possibility hybridization between a Bug and a PT Cruiser. The result is too frightening to ponder. (And you thought the Aztek looked bad?) On the other hand, if you are thinking of an inanimate object that just happened to coalesce out of the the random collisions and chemical reactions in space, then sure, it can happen. But I’d be _really leery_ about turning the ignition key. The Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax were good at pummelling their enemies, but not so clear on weapon design specifications. [It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.](http://www.earthstar.co.uk/potatoes.htm) Look at the Irish. Stranger Any day I get to start out with a Hitchhiker’s quote can’t be all bad. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/27 "2005-06-16T19:49:30Z")
> [@THespos](#): > > Suppose you’re one of the infinite number of explorers searching the infinite universe and stumble across the highly improbable, naturally-grown VW Bug somewhere. And it’s the wrong color. > > How bummed would you be? Not as bummed as you’d be as when you find out that by mere chance, the keys are locked inside. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/28 "2005-06-16T20:22:20Z")
What I think is even cooler is that even if you have a finite universe, if you assume the universe lasts for an infinite amount of time, then the same thing happens. Long after the heat death of the universe, they could by random chance suddenly assemble the entire SDMB server circa 16th of June 2005 with every post being stored on the hard drive in the exact same location, just due to random factors. Sure, it’ll take a few years, but it will happen eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/29 "2005-06-16T20:25:09Z")
Even more improbable but still feasible would be for the server to run exactly as it was running now, except completely devoid of any infrastructure. It would just have a dangling power cord and electrons would hit that cord at just the right times with just the right energy to provide power and other electrons would hit the network cable at just the right instances to provide data packets. The chances of such things happening are so mindbogglingly small it becomes painful to think about it but it’s still non-zero. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/30 "2005-06-16T20:33:24Z")
Can someone explain to me why this would _have_ to happen in an infinite universe. I get how it _might_ happen (no need to mention how extremely unlikely), but I don’t see the logic in an infinite universe that _must_ spew forth every imagineable and unimagineable thing that could possibly exist. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/31 "2005-06-16T20:46:06Z")
To restate a point others have made, consider a universe made entirely of blue ping pong balls floating in space, all the same color, all the same size, but an infinite number of them. There you have it. An infinite universe in which green ping-pong balls, much less VW bugs, don’t exist, even though the physics of the universe would support them. QED, nothing to see here, move along. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/32 "2005-06-16T20:47:33Z")
Even if we assume an “infinite” universe (and I’m not even sure I know what that means), it doesn’t follow that there are places/times that violate the laws of identity and causality, and there’s no guarantee that a given object will \*\*ever \*\*come into being. What there is a guarantee of is lots of repetition. And we already know that VW Bugs and 747s already exist, and they are just as much “occurring in nature” as a supernova or a blade of grass. It’s human nature to choose to think and invent things, and our inventions just as “natural” as anything else that exists. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/33 "2005-06-16T21:06:33Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And we already know that VW Bugs and 747s already exist, and they are just as much “occurring in nature” as a supernova or a blade of grass. It’s human nature to choose to think and invent things, and our inventions just as “natural” as anything else that exists. Or, to paraphrase Richard Dawkins, a human being is a Volkswagon’s way of making another Volkswagon. :eek: Which was, of course, Hitler’s neferious plan all along. And when he talked about the “master race” you thought it meant the Teutons. :dubious: Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/34 "2005-06-16T21:15:58Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > You don’t even want to imagine two VW Bugs in heat. A sentient and horny Volkswagon? :eek: Seems pretty preposterous to me, even if given the possibility of an infinite universe. Might make a pretty good Disney movie, though… ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/35 "2005-06-16T21:16:25Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And we already know that VW Bugs and 747s already exist, and they are just as much “occurring in nature” as a supernova or a blade of grass. It’s human nature to choose to think and invent things, and our inventions just as “natural” as anything else that exists. Although I get your drift — I think — you have actually just diluted the word “natural” to the point where it’s useless. Under your schema, every material thing that exists or has existed is _natural_. But that’s not what the word is commonly taken to mean: namely, the complement of all that is artificial or man-made. This thread reminds me of some amusing notions that have occurred to me. If the universe were indeed infinite, or at least sufficiently huge, then somewhere out there is a planet with no radioactivity — and perhaps also with a bunch of physicists scratching their green scaly heads over why their models (which predict radioactivity) are so wrong. This would be happening not because radioactivity is prevented there somehow, but simply because, by an astounding astronomical coincidence, no radioactive atom on the planet has “chosen” to decay yet. And never does. Just by extreme luck. Likewise, somewhere there’s a planet where uranium is only radioactive on Wednesdays, and plutonium on Fridays. Bet that’s a poser for the locals! And to keep going with this, somewhere there’s a planet where all unstable atoms decay almost instantly, leaving no material with which to build nuclear reactors, or bombs. Wouldn’t that make an interesting difference? And somewhere there’s a planet made entirely of gold, and one made of diamond, and one made of marshmallow, and one made of blue Legos, and one made of … ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/36 "2005-06-16T21:27:03Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > This thread reminds me of some amusing notions that have occurred to me. If the universe were indeed infinite, or at least sufficiently huge, then somewhere out there is a planet with no radioactivity — and perhaps also with a bunch of physicists scratching their green scaly heads over why their models (which predict radioactivity) are so wrong. There would still be cosmic radiation, which makes up the bulk of the background radiation you detect anyway. (At university, experiements were often performed inside the reactor containment dome, right next to the core, _because_ the radioactivity in there, protected from the normal background, was so much lower.) > [@Bytegeist](#): > > Likewise, somewhere there’s a planet where uranium is only radioactive on Wednesdays, and plutonium on Fridays. Bet that’s a poser for the locals! And to keep going with this, somewhere there’s a planet where all unstable atoms decay almost instantly, leaving no material with which to build nuclear reactors, or bombs. Wouldn’t that make an interesting difference? That would be in actual violation of physical laws. Any individual (unstable) atom may or may not decay at a given moment, but the distribution of atoms will decay absolutely in compliance with that isotope’s half-life. > [@Bytegeist](#): > > And somewhere there’s a planet made entirely of gold, and one made of diamond, and one made of marshmallow, and one made of blue Legos, and one made of … And one covered in water and full of fish. Some people have the oddest tastes… Stranger ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/37 "2005-06-16T21:38:43Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > In an infinite universe… yes. > > But as has been pointed out, you’re infinitely unlikely to find that planet. Which is where Douglas Adam’s idea rather fails. And if you did find it, you’re likely to have to transport it an infinite distance back home. I think the most probable average distance would be infinity/2. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/38 "2005-06-16T21:45:45Z")
All you have to do is call the infinite number of cell phones being carried by the infinite number of replicas of you that are in the infinite reaches of the universe and ask them to look around for any VW bugs. > [@Shalmanese](#): > > What I think is even cooler is that even if you have a finite universe, if you assume the universe lasts for an infinite amount of time, then the same thing happens. Long after the heat death of the universe, they could by random chance suddenly assemble the entire SDMB server circa 16th of June 2005 with every post being stored on the hard drive in the exact same location, just due to random factors. Sure, it’ll take a few years, but it will happen eventually. At last, we’ll finally get the threads back from the Winter of Our Missed Content! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/39 "2005-06-16T21:48:34Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > That would be in actual violation of physical laws. Any individual (unstable) atom may or may not decay at a given moment, but the distribution of atoms will decay absolutely in compliance with that isotope’s half-life. Why? It seems only to be a statistical thing. Let’s suppose I’ve only 8 radioactive atoms. There’s no reason to assume 4 of them will have decayed at the end of the half life of this material. Isn’t there a significant likehood that none will have decayed? What about 100 atoms? 1000? 1 million? 1 billion? What about only 1 atom? Why wouldn’t there be a non-zero probability of no atom decaying in any sample, however large? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535/40 "2005-06-16T21:51:08Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > There would still be cosmic radiation, which makes up the bulk of the background radiation you detect anyway. (At university, experiements were often performed inside the reactor containment dome, right next to the core, _because_ the radioactivity in there, protected from the normal background, was so much lower.) > That would be in actual violation of physical laws. Any individual (unstable) atom may or may not decay at a given moment, but the distribution of atoms will decay absolutely in compliance with that isotope’s half-life. > > And one covered in water and full of fish. Some people have the oddest tastes… > > Stranger No, radiation is a **statistical** law, not an absolute one. And cosmic rays could all be coincidentally absorbed by passing dust clouds before they ever reach the planet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unlikely-things-in-an-infinite-universe/308535.md?page=3)