Unneccesary plot elements in movies

[llcoolbj77]

@Sleel

Prometheus: most of the movie. I kid. Two pointless threads, though, the ancient star map to the Sooper Sekrit military research facility that brings them there. Why not a more believable and realistic backtracking from artifacts/signals encountered in space? The anti-aging plotline that goes absolutely nowhere.

Agreed. It’s like they couldn’t figure out what movie they wanted to make… So they smooshed three story arcs together.

[eschereal]

Would anyone care to defend the Death of Mr. Spock? In what is otherwise the best, most interesting and silliest movie in the series (I was on acid the first time I saw it, it was hilarious), they put in this meaningless, sappy piece of fluff that not only lends no value to the film but ends up making no difference to the course of the series (or Nimoy’s career). I mean, when I heard they were going to kill him, then I saw those ear lobsters, I thought this was going to be good. Imagine my disappointment.

[Enlightening_Meditation]

The whole unedited The Abyss director’s cut is much better than the original theaterical release IMHO. The ending is way, way different between the two. The plot (as written anyway) needed a confilict where in thsi instance a trigger happy character wanted to nuke the mystereious deep ocean creature, so that Ed harris’ could come to the rescue. It’s a bit of the stretch that a high level Navy seal would go berserk given the deep sea circumstances, mysterious creatures, and the contemporary (at the time) paranoia toward the Soviets, but I don’t feel that it was totally superfluous to the overall plot.

@Ludovic

Coen Brothers movies are full of these. In my opinion, as long as it does not make the story overlong and is entertaining by itself, unnecessary plot elements usually do not detract from a story but rather add to its authenticity since the world itself is often quirky and unnecessary.

Speaking of the Coen Brothers, the scene in Fargo where the police officer Marge meets with the Asian fellow, who knew her from high school(?), at a restaurant is wholly unnecessary and fluff to the rest of the plot. It’s a great move regardless of that.

[eschereal]

Barton Fink is one long unnecessary plot element. But it is one very good long unnecessary plot element.

[Atomic_Alex]

@Enlightening_Meditation

The whole unedited The Abyss director’s cut is much better than the original theaterical release IMHO. The ending is way, way different between the two. The plot (as written anyway) needed a confilict where in thsi instance a trigger happy character wanted to nuke the mystereious deep ocean creature, so that Ed harris’ could come to the rescue. It’s a bit of the stretch that a high level Navy seal would go berserk given the deep sea circumstances, mysterious creatures, and the contemporary (at the time) paranoia toward the Soviets, but I don’t feel that it was totally superfluous to the overall plot.

It was more the means for his craziness that I was questioning, I posited that even a highly trained Navy SEAL could simply snap due to circumstances and pressures that were way out of his experience. But apparently I’m mistaken and that couldn’t happen (my doubts remain, as I said, Navy SEAL’s or not, they’re still only human.)

[Corporal_Nobbs]

@Toffe

1. In none of those cases - such as Indefatigable vs Droits de l’Homme, Surprise vs Hermione, or of course Speedy vs El Gamo was the action ordered by the admiralty, as it would have been nuts. Captains were either acting on their own initiative, in small fleet actions, or defending themselves. I have never heard of any British admiralty order for a frigate captain to single-handedly engage a vessel in a superior class. (I’m happy to be proven wrong, if you’ve got a cite to the contrary?)
2. Yes, but come on, this is clearly excessive, when even the overzealous Capt. Aubrey admits he’s exceeded his orders. In the detached/crusing orders I’m familiar with, the limits to the orders were clear.
3. I concede this is the weakest part of my argument, as a lot of odd orders pop up once in a while, especially in a period where rising in the ranks was primarily through seniority instead of capability. Still, one would think that a threat like the Acheron would be worth a “real” frigate, such as how Edward Cooke raised merry hell in the Indian ocean in Sybille.

1. I will concede to a point here, however, it is clear in the film, that no one is sure of the Acherons strength. As pointed out by Jacks surprise at her hulls thickness in the moldel constructed by a member of the crew. So I presumed the Admiralty reckoned a 28 gun frigate such as the Surprise should be capable of destroying or capturing the Acheron. There werent many frigate sized privateers.
2. I see your point, I think it was trying to say as well as being determined he was becoming obsessed, which is unlike his character in the novels.
3. See point one, Surprise would be no where near the line of battle, only used to repeat signals or scout, so why not send her on detatched duty to free up a larger more capable hull?

[JKellyMap]

@Enlightening_Meditation

Speaking of the Coen Brothers, the scene in Fargo where the police officer Marge meets with the Asian fellow, who knew her from high school(?), at a restaurant is wholly unnecessary and fluff to the rest of the plot. It’s a great move regardless of that.

See post #21, and prepare to be amazed! I think that explanation is spot on (and I’d always wondered the same thing myself, though I did love the scene as a stand-alone set-piece.)

[JKellyMap]

The whole “older brother falling in love with a sad young girl who turns out to be an old jerk’s lady” story in the Galician (Spanish) film Butterfly is unrelated to the main plot, but that’s because the film attempts to stitch together several stories by some Spanish writer. Because the main story is told from the perspective of a young child, they had to come up with some reason for him to be observing some of the secondary plot, so they rather awkwardly insert him in a band of traveling musicians who are all much older than him.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@For You

Would anyone care to defend the Death of Mr. Spock? In what is otherwise the best, most interesting and silliest movie in the series (I was on acid the first time I saw it, it was hilarious), they put in this meaningless, sappy piece of fluff that not only lends no value to the film but ends up making no difference to the course of the series (or Nimoy’s career). I mean, when I heard they were going to kill him, then I saw those ear lobsters, I thought this was going to be good. Imagine my disappointment.

Well, killing him off was good.

Bringing him back, though, was unnecessary.

[Lamia]

@Disposable Hero

It was more the means for his craziness that I was questioning, I posited that even a highly trained Navy SEAL could simply snap due to circumstances and pressures that were way out of his experience. But apparently I’m mistaken and that couldn’t happen (my doubts remain, as I said, Navy SEAL’s or not, they’re still only human.)

It’s been so long since I’ve seen The Abyss that I barely remember this character, but I’m not seeing how “Navy SEAL goes bonkers just because” would be better writing than “Navy SEAL goes bonkers because of an actual neurological syndrome that occurs in this specific type of physical environment”. Using HPNS as the explanation instead of psychological stress isn’t just a more plausible reason why a highly trained professional would suddenly lose it, it also helps to emphasize the real-life dangers of the undersea environment where so much of the movie takes place.

[Sauron]

@Alessan

Neither does Stephen King. He’s admitted to being so coked-up in the mid-80’s that he has no real memory of writing the book.

That may explain why the Kissing Bridge gets completely destroyed twice in the span of roughly 20 pages.

[Atomic_Alex]

@Lamia

It’s been so long since I’ve seen The Abyss that I barely remember this character, but I’m not seeing how “Navy SEAL goes bonkers just because” would be better writing than “Navy SEAL goes bonkers because of an actual neurological syndrome that occurs in this specific type of physical environment”. Using HPNS as the explanation instead of psychological stress isn’t just a more plausible reason why a highly trained professional would suddenly lose it, it also helps to emphasize the real-life dangers of the undersea environment where so much of the movie takes place.

Well the point of the thread is story elements that aren’t really necessary for the movie or could have been done in a simpler manner. Great movie though, compare The Abyss to something with a similar theme like Sphere and it shows that Cameron really is a vastly superior movie-maker and storyteller.

[Robot_Arm]

I just saw Psycho for the first time on Sunday.[sup]*[/sup] I’d seen lots of it before, in bits and pieces, but this was the first time all the way through. The bit at the end with the psychiatrist explaining Norman’s actions was rather unnecessary. At least, it seems that way now; don’t know if that sort of thing would have played better to audiences of the time.

• Mothers’ Day, as a matter of fact.

[Rocketeer]

@Robot_Arm

I just saw Psycho for the first time on Sunday.[sup]*[/sup] I’d seen lots of it before, in bits and pieces, but this was the first time all the way through. The bit at the end with the psychiatrist explaining Norman’s actions was rather unnecessary. At least, it seems that way now; don’t know if that sort of thing would have played better to audiences of the time.

It’s my opinion that that sequence is a very very dry joke, put in by Hitch with a twinkle in his eye.