# Unorthodox **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806 "2020-04-01T15:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/61 "2020-04-20T19:02:20Z")
commasense: > [@](#): > > I’m aware that those are expected standards even for less extreme Orthodox Jews. And at least three of the four are common “rules” for many Christian and Muslim groups as well. However, I suspect you’d agree that quite a few people do not always follow those strictures to the letter. Of course, you’ll notice I used the word “majority” and not “everyone”. There will always be a range of compliance with any given ethical/legal/social structure under which people live. Every society has its rebels and its criminals. All I’m saying is that the rule system that restricts sexual experiences for singles is the same in the wider Orthodox Jewish world as in the Satmar subset of said world. And if the insularity of the Satmar community makes such compliance higher, it’s likely more on the order of 95% versus 98%, not 75% vs 98%. Because what’s taught in the yeshivas is the baseline “normal” for singles in the community and it’s really pretty much the same. > [@](#): > > No movies, no Web, no novels, etc., that might have given Yanky some clue as to what making love is supposed to be like. While I’ll agree that the non-Satmar world allows greater access to secular media that the Satmar world, I do not think that this mostly includes media that conveys helpful (post-maritally) sexual knowledge. Visual media like TV or movies would at most be romantic dramas and comedies, which will certainly show kissing, hugging, falling into bed and waking up (discreetly covered by blankets) with a smile afterward, but anything between those last two steps are Phase 2 of the Underpants Gnomes’ business plan. Romance novels certainly have words that are a more explicit (“her heaving chest made his manhood throb”), but still probably not very helpful from an instructional perspective. I suppose any of those media might be more of an inducement to masturbation than the absence of such (in the Satmar community). But even that effect is likely quite limited. > [@](#): > > Interestingly, he was also apparently unaware of the Talmudic teachings that it is a husband’s duty to give his wife sexual pleasure. Esty had to inform him (or at least remind him) about that. Now, that I can’t speak to - in my own experience in the non-Satmar Orthodox community, single men who are engaged will be taught by a Rabbi in their yeshiva (or, if no longer in a yeshiva full-time, by their synagogue Rabbi or a mentor he recommends) what the religious expectations of a married man are (as regards both obligations and prohibitions). These are also discussed in several places in the Talmud and are not at all censored in Talmudic study (at least not for those beyond high school). If Yanky was not made aware of these, then it is either a failure of his teacher or it is a failure of that system (or its equivalent, or its non-existence) within the Satmar community - I couldn’t rightly say. Not knowing the specifics of the character, it’s also possible that Yanky needed to be reminded of his marital obligations due to thoughtlessness and not genuine ignorance, like a husband who keeps neglecting to fix the leaky sink faucet. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/62 "2020-04-20T22:02:30Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > While I’ll agree that the non-Satmar world allows greater access to secular media that the Satmar world, I do not think that this mostly includes media that conveys helpful (post-maritally) sexual knowledge. Visual media like TV or movies would at most be romantic dramas and comedies, which will certainly show kissing, hugging, falling into bed and waking up (discreetly covered by blankets) with a smile afterward, but anything between those last two steps are Phase 2 of the Underpants Gnomes’ business plan. Romance novels certainly have words that are a more explicit (“her heaving chest made his manhood throb”), but still probably not very helpful from an instructional perspective. I suppose any of those media might be more of an inducement to masturbation than the absence of such (in the Satmar community). But even that effect is likely quite limited. I don’t think **commasense** was referring to masturbation with the mention of movies and novels. My memory could be off but Yanky seemed to be unaware of anything other than the part where the romantic comedy cuts away - and even his knowledge of _that_ part seemed to be restricted to “Tab A goes into Slot B”. Now, I don’t know if that was a shortcoming of Yanky or of whoever instructed him - but someone with access to secular media would not be unaware that kissing and hugging existed. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/63 "2020-04-20T22:18:52Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I don’t think **commasense** was referring to masturbation with the mention of movies and novels. > My memory could be off but Yanky seemed to be unaware of anything other than the part where the romantic comedy cuts away - and even his knowledge of _that_ part seemed to be restricted to “Tab A goes into Slot B”. Now, I don’t know if that was a shortcoming of Yanky or of whoever instructed him - but someone with access to secular media would not be unaware that kissing and hugging existed. Thank you. Yes, that’s what I was getting at. It’s a shame that **cmkeller** hasn’t seen the show. I’d be very interested in his take on it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/64 "2020-04-21T14:49:36Z")
doreen: > [@](#): > > I don’t think commasense was referring to masturbation with the mention of movies and novels. I hadn’t really thought so, either. It was just a throwaway line after being skeptical that popular romantics fiction that is more available to non-Satmar Orthodox Jews than to Satmars would be likely to make them better lovers. > [@](#): > > My memory could be off but Yanky seemed to be unaware of anything other than the part where the romantic comedy cuts away - and even his knowledge of that part seemed to be restricted to “Tab A goes into Slot B”. Now, I don’t know if that was a shortcoming of Yanky or of whoever instructed him - but someone with access to secular media would not be unaware that kissing and hugging existed. Sounds like the character is way more sheltered than I’d expect (though I couldn’t say for 100% sure) the average Satmar man to be. Kissing and hugging is very universal, basic gesture of affection that most people, Satmars included, are well familiar with from childhood. (Though I’ll admit that romantic popular media will include forms of kissing that children do not routinely experience.) commasense: > [@](#): > > It’s a shame that cmkeller hasn’t seen the show. I’d be very interested in his take on it. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing it, if I ever feel the urge to pay for a Netflix subscription. Though I’ll mention that the Marvel Netflix series were a pretty strong inducement for this comic book/MCU fan, and I still cheaped out. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2020, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/65 "2020-05-05T07:32:30Z")
I liked the show. I was happy for Esty because with many marriages in many cultures it was not for HER. The series did portray many female characters that not only accepted but glorified in their roles as wives in the Orthodox community and they were happy with it and while that might be for many of US, who are we to judge. Also I was happy to see Yanksty was not a bad guy and I felt a lot of sympathy for him. He will make a great husband for a future wife someday. Moishe was a fantastic but criminally undeveloped character. I would love to see Moishe get his own mini series battling his demons. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/66 "2020-05-06T13:57:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > For someone who fits into the community, who finds comfort in the ritual, customs, and traditions, it can be a wonderful thing. Square pegs for the round holes, though, can wind up miserable which is why some people leave and because it’s usually some horrible situation that prompts this departure these stories read as tragedies. > > It’s unfortunate, because it can result in people outside the community getting only one side of the story. That’s part of it. But it’s also about what sells. People are not buying these books or watching these series to see a world that looks pretty much like the one they’re already familiar with. They want to see something bizarre and exotic. So the people who create these works have a very strong incentive to play up and exaggerate the exotic aspects and to distort the reality in order to draw a more interesting picture for their intended audience. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/67 "2020-05-07T13:51:31Z")
A Hasidic woman who is a civil court judge in New York took it upon herself to watch the series. Her comments are summarized [here](http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/279835), and there are links there to a video and to another article with greater detail. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/68 "2020-12-26T16:21:01Z")
As a Netflix newbie, I finally got a chance to watch this series. Raised as a Reform Jew, the Satmar beliefs and practices were ones that I was aware of, if not directly. > [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s very clear that “replacing the six million” is a HUGE deal with these people and they’ve apparently taken it on as a major project. I have long suspected this, but this was the first time I ever heard it stated explicitly. > [@Green\_Bean](#): > > To that last point, Esty’s husband would have been awful in bed whether he was a Satmar, a Southern Baptist, or a surfer dude from L.A. Yes and no. I learned how not to be “awful in bed” by being with multiple loving partners and, yes, from reading and watching porn. But at least, unlike Yanky, I knew about (and craved) hugging and kissing. We live on the edge of an ultra-Orthodox community, and we rub shoulders with them on nearly a daily basis. It’s amazing how much variety there is among them. After reading this thread, I feel the need to rewatch the series. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/69 "2020-12-29T18:48:36Z")
Do Ultra-Orthodox communities really have a woman who’s job it is to explain intercourse (& family purity) to brides? It just seems like something a bride’s mother or married female relatives would be expected to do. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/70 "2020-12-30T00:23:53Z")
Is there going to be a second season? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806/71 "2020-12-30T01:06:52Z")
Answering my own question. No indication of a second season at IMDb. > **[Unorthodox (TV Mini Series 2020) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9815454/?ref_=vp_vi_tt)** > > Unorthodox: Created by Anna Winger. With Shira Haas, Amit Rahav, Jeff Wilbusch, Alex Reid. Story of a young ultra-Orthodox Jewish woman who flees her arranged marriage and religious community to start a new life abroad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unorthodox/850806.md?page=3)