# Unraveling "the whole nine yards" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 27, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245 "2012-12-27T02:54:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/61 "2013-09-09T01:22:01Z")
> [@Tammi\_Terrell](#): > > By the way, I’ve no doubt we’ll find other instances of the idiom in other publications of the period in the coming months. These smalltown newspapers aren’t often digitized and added to various electronic news databases, but – with the enormous interest in geneaological research – it’s now worth it to sites that make such news databases available to add things like The Mitchell Commercial. So, although the appearance of “the full/whole nine yards” in just one newspaper of the period may look like a fluke, I think it’s just a signal that we’re getting close to unearthing many more instances as these databases enlarge. Lexis/Nexis is beyond my price range, but I use the Library of Congress Chronicle of America and Newspaper Archive. What other online and affordable newspaper databases are there that you’d recommend? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/62 "2013-09-09T18:40:54Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Since I first heard the phrase in Coast Guard recruit training, I figured it was a reference to a 3 masted ship with 3 yardarms on each mast. The “whole nine yards” would mean all yardarms would have sails deployed, therefore you’d be getting maximum speed. I think I suggested this once somewhere online and got shot down by the .50 cal ammo belts for P-51s. [pun intended :p] But when was the last time that a mere nine yards would be associated with high speed? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/63 "2013-09-10T01:45:08Z")
I’m impressed with how deep the search has gone. It will be interesting to see if this ends up having started in some small, rural Midwest town, or got transplanted there somehow… ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/64 "2013-09-10T05:01:47Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > But when was the last time that a mere nine yards would be associated with high speed? If there are 3 masts with 3 yardarms per mast, then having sails deployed on all 9 yardarms would provide the most speed from the wind. It’d be the equivalent of “all ahead full”. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/65 "2013-09-10T05:25:31Z")
> [@Tammi\_Terrell](#): > > Sorry to bump an oldish thread, but for those still interested in this word puzzle … > > That’s about the only thing I seem to have gotten right in this, to acknowledge that “the whole six yards” and “the whole nine yards” may have co-existed a hundred years ago. Because we now have usages in south central Indiana of “the full nine yards” and “the whole nine yards” dating back a hundred years. So the earliest mention of this phrase in 1907 is in apparent reference to the nine innings of a baseball game? It seems as if the newspaperman was thinking that the oncoming bad weather (yes, a WAG) would cause a premature ending of the game. Or else the team spoken of would have given up before the entire nine innings were concluded. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/66 "2013-09-10T09:44:52Z")
It doesn’t appear to me that there’s any claim that the phrase has anything to do with the number of baseball innings. It appears that the writer already knew (and knew that his readers knew) about the phrase “the full nine yards” and then tried to relate that to the baseball game he was talking about. He talks about the nine men on a baseball team and perhaps also implicitly about the nine innings in a game and then talks jokingly about going the full nine yards. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/67 "2013-09-10T19:00:53Z")
Only three yards per mast is very few for a ship built for speed in modern times, and serious contenders often had more than three masts, too. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/68 "2013-09-10T19:28:17Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Or else the team spoken of would have given up before the entire nine innings were concluded. As I read it, this appears to be a show game between the “regular nine”, i.e. the team players, and the “business men”, i.e. the other staff for the team. They hope the business men will give a good show, but may not be able to last all nine innings, and the author then throws the full nine yards metaphor. That’s without further context than just the supplied snippet. ---
**Author:** ![Tammi\_Terrell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Tammi\_Terrell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tammi_Terrell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/69 "2013-09-11T01:11:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Lexis/Nexis is beyond my price range, but I use the Library of Congress Chronicle of America and Newspaper Archive. What other online and affordable newspaper databases are there that you’d recommend? Newspaper Archive is where these new old sightings appeared. Historic newspaper databases are also attached to [Ancestry.com](http://Ancestry.com) and Genealogy Bank. They’re pretty reasonably priced too and don’t overlap all that much with each other or with the database at Newspaper Archive (as far as I’ve been able to tell). And then there’s Google News, where we found the 1921 “Whole Six Yards of It,” and Google Books, where 1956 and 1957 usages were found. Even the snippet views from the latter can lead to books and magazines that might be available in a nearby library or via interlibrary loan. I _know_ that I’m fortunate to have access to a number of historical newspaper databases via my work affiliation with a university, but those pricey services haven’t seemed to have paid off much, at least when it comes to searching for early instances of “the whole nine yards” and variants. **samclem** can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the most significant finds over the last six or seven years have come via Newspaper Archive, the LOC’s Chronicling America database, Google News, and Google Books. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It doesn’t appear to me that there’s any claim that the phrase has anything to do with the number of baseball innings. It appears that the writer already knew (and knew that his readers knew) about the phrase “the full nine yards” and then tried to relate that to the baseball game he was talking about. He talks about the nine men on a baseball team and perhaps also implicitly about the nine innings in a game and then talks jokingly about going the full nine yards. Yes, I pretty much agree with **Wendell Wagner** and **Irishman**. For what it’s worth, a sports article that appeared in _The Spartanburg Herald_ in 1921 that was devoted to describing a complete (nine-inning) baseball game was titled “[The Whole Six Yards of It](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Whole-6-yard-headline.jpg).” So there doesn’t seem be any real relationship between “yards” and “innings.” ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/70 "2013-09-11T17:33:56Z")
> [@Tammi\_Terrell](#): > > Yes, I pretty much agree with **Wendell Wagner** and **Irishman**. For what it’s worth, a sports article that appeared in _The Spartanburg Herald_ in 1921 that was devoted to describing a complete (nine-inning) baseball game was titled “[The Whole Six Yards of It](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Whole-6-yard-headline.jpg).” So there doesn’t seem be any real relationship between “yards” and “innings.” Unless the _Mitchell Commercial_ writer was punning on the existing “whole six yards” idiom to comport with the nine innings of a baseball game. He may have decided he liked nine better and kept using it. Obviously just speculation, but the continued existence of “six”, even in baseball contexts, doesn’t mean that “nine” wasn’t influenced by baseball. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/71 "2013-09-11T23:04:06Z")
> [@Tammi\_Terrell](#): > > **samclem** can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the most significant finds over the last six or seven years have come via Newspaper Archive, the LOC’s Chronicling America database, Google News, and Google Books. Thanks. I was mostly wondering whether there is any other pay service I should pay attention to for my own historic research, which isn’t word-related but requires lots of keyword searches. Newspaper Archive is horrible in many, many ways but for some reason it always produces many more hits than Google News. I keep wishing for one really good site that also includes some major newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245/72 "2013-09-11T23:44:56Z")
My devil-strip is nine yards long. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unraveling-the-whole-nine-yards/645245.md?page=3)