I notice that a lot more responses snuck in while I was writing.
I don’t know anything about property law where you are but the case I talked about above arose on the sale of the vacant block. The pre-sale survey could not be signed off because of the encroachment and the vacant lot could not be sold until the situation was rectified. It may pay to ask some questions of your legal representatives sooner rather than later.
Actually, you might want to look into your state and county codes. We have a neighbor who seemed to have purchased the house next door solely to harass us about a tree that sits between the driveways. He wanted us to cut the tree down so he could park a car next to his driveway like we do, regardless of the fact that technically, its not his yard (both houses have a single car garage and driveway, allowing for storage of 2 cars, but somewhat of a PITA in getting cars in the “right” order). First he claimed that the tree was unstable and about to fall on his house. Next up was “my arborist sais that tree should only have 4 trunks, not 5.” Then he tried a “lets put up a fence between the houses with gates” removal proposal. Next he switched to claiming the tree was growing into his house. At this point, we were getting a bit annoyed and told him that we would agree to the offending area being pruned, but we were definitely not cutting the tree down. So, he waited till we were away on a contract for a week and a half (Mr. Ben and I work together) and cut part of it down, after ascertaining with my mother, who was housesitting, that we were in fact out of town.
He claimed that the POA told him he could do it. On advice from our friend the lawyer, I checked the county codes. Turns out that he committed a Class Three misdemeanor (i.e. barely on the chart) but still a crime. Mr. Ben presented him with printouts from the county website. Shut him up really quickly and we haven’t heard another peep about the rest of the tree.
I don’t know where you are, but my county has the county code online and searchable at it’s website. I just did a search on “tree” or something silly like that.
I’d argue that listing your plot, parcel and dimensions of your lot IS full disclosure. She’s not in a legal dispute over the land and she’s never had a surveyor come out to mark the property line. It’s complete speculation and something the new homeowner’s might want to pursue further.
However, Muffin and Green Bean are probably correct. Because we’re living in the U.S. of A., home of 3 bazillion lawyers, yes, go ahead and put it in the contract: “The President of the Homeowners’ Association thinks the rock wall is 3 inches over the property line.” And while you’re at it, also put in: “The neighbor to the left is a supreme bitch.”
The house was sold to us with the fence already there and I know that the builder had some questions about it (although it wasn’t disclosed to us at the time). I’ll ask my real estate guy what he thinks, but I’m not going to worry too much about it.
I am not familiar with “gated comunities” and how they work. It seems absurd to me that anyone could even think about fineing you for anything haveing to do with your own property. If it is your tree and you dont want to cut it , then it shouldnt get cut. THat should be the end of the discusion. If you do end up haveing the tree cut down to appease your shity neighbor , I would make her pay for it. I wouldnt allow her to use the homeowners association tree trimmers. I would insist on her geting a full time arborist out there who will charger her for the cutting and removal. Also insist on haveing the stump removed if she has the tree cut and pass that cost a long to her as well. If she wants it gone so badly she shouldnt mind paying for it. Maybe next time she will be more carefull about what she wishes for.
As for the brick wall , I would get a surveyor in there and have him mark which half is yours. Once you can prove which half is your half of the wall, just knock down that half. You can get an electric hammer and the chisels that go with it at sears. This way you dont destroy the whole wall , but you weaken it enough for it to fall over. It isnt your fault if her half is too weak to support itself.
I would go after the fence and get it the hell off my property. Did she put up this fence? If she did I’d be detonating it tomorrow.
I would also document all further contact you have with these people including video taping any face to face contact. Just let her walk into your yard and tape away.
If they claim that some ‘expert’ said something about the tree then ask to speak to that person.
IANALawyer, knowledgeable about real estate, but having been through high school as unpopular nerd, I know a thing or two about non-cooperative game theory. My advice:
First: Do the branch thing. It’s what a 3rd party wants, so you will not be capitulating. Next: save the fence thing. If she just has a thing about pine cones but is otherwise reasonable, then you will have just pissed her off. Also: Don’t tit-for-tat with the fence. If she continues to be an ass, bring it up, but don’t say that you will drop it if she drops hers. Someone being able to hurt you at any time is a better threat then announcing what provocation will make you use the fence thing.
I’d have the property line resurveyed. Make sure you get a registered land surveyor. If the fence is indeed in your land, then get an estimate for its complete removal. Then ask if she’d rather pay the $5000 or so for its removal or would she like to buy a 3 inch strip of land for $3000.
O BTW. Your POA are being dickheads for listening to her and acquiescing always in her favor. File complaints with the POA as well and have them hear your side of the story. That way your neighbor cant use the POA as weapon against you.
IANAREL but in california, anything within your property line is yours including overhanging branches of trees and other plants. I can deal with those as I would with any other personal property. If something overhangs my property line that I am not in favor of (like branches with deadly pinecones in it) I can have them cut away and theres nothing the owner of the tree can do about as long as I pay for it myself. I must stop where the property lines are tho so I cannot chop down a tree just becaus the branches reach over my property.
I would think that with that being the case, anything that falls out of an overhanging branch is my responsibility not the tree owner. Check out the laws in your area.
Was the tree there when she moved in? If it was, I can’t see how she could make any complaints about the natural actions of a healthy tree. If she didn’t want branches hanging over her driveway, she shouldn’t have bought a house with branches over the driveway.
In my city (15,500 people) you cannot cut down a tree without getting a permit first. even pruning one like that, would possibly require a permit. So here is what we do, we talk to the city forester & he issues an opinion. I hope you have a city forester, trees are a lovely thing. & tell her you have to ask him first.
She could cut the branches herself on her side probably legally.
How big is the tree? Maybe you could show us a picture? I like the brick wall idea, go see her & tell her that the brick wall is three inches on your side, & that she should put it on her side & maybe that would shut her up?
The law in our area is that if she wants to, she can cut the branches that overhang her property line. If she causes damage to the tree (it gets sick), she is responsible for replacing the tree. If something falls from the tree and causes damage to her property (a limb) we are legally responsible for compensating her for the damage. She would have to prove that the damage came from our tree. This is where her problem comes in (and the reaction from my insurance guy). First, there’s no way a pine cone caused the damage she’s claiming. Second, prove it. There’s no way she could prove it unless she has a video of the pinecone hitting the car (which she doesn’t). It would be believable if she was saying a branch fell and hit the tree. These aren’t lead pine cones.
The POA, actually, has been pretty reasonable, I think. I’m okay with the compromise of branches being trimmed by the POA’s landscaper. I think if we had really pressed the issue with them (refused to have the branches trimmed), they would have said ok, but we don’t really have a problem with the branches being trimmed. If I thought that would be the end of the problem, I’d follow through and leave it at that.
We’re considering taking the whole tree down just to end the issue, but we’re still concerned that it won’t be the end of it, so we’re going to keep the fence issue in our “bag of tricks” to pull out if/when she escalates. Plus, she’s really annoying and I don’t want to her feel like she can push us around and we’ll cave on everything, so I really wouldn’t mind making her just a little sorry she started the whole thing. Nothing at all illegal or damaging, just annoying.
Phason, yeah, the tree was there when she moved in. Her house is about 10 years old (and the tree much older than that). She moved in just under a year ago. Our house is three years old. According to our builder, the tree was standing there, alone, before he bought the lot. The woman who lived there before never had a problem with it.
Incidentally, the driveway’s pretty big and she has a two car garage. She doesn’t have to park under the tree, but she does. It’s her driveway - she can park where she wants - but, if it were you and you knew the tree was at least going to be trimmed in the near future, wouldn’t you park away from the tree for a week or so until it was done? The POA even asked her to do this. She has refused and continues to park directly under the tree.
Background: We have an annoying neighbor, too. Annoying enough that the police have been involved. Based on that, here’s my advice:
Don’t get the tree cut down. Let the HOA people trim it if that seems reasonable, but if you cut it down after saying you wouldn’t, you are basically telling her that you will do her bidding if she pushes you hard enough. Don’t assume this will be the end of it if she gets her way - it will be just the beginning.
Do keep a log of anything she does that is harrassing or just particularly bizarre. Pine cone damage is a good example. Write down all the details you remember, and don’t forget the date and time. If it’s legal where you are, record her phone calls to you - and if she starts screaming about the damage your superheavy pine cones are doing to her property, record that too if it’s legal. If the HOA or, gawd forbid, the police have to get involved, they’ll be interested in seeing this.
I doubt she’ll make good on her threats to sue you, but if she does, show her you’ll fight back and are serious. Get a lawyer who will write the appropriate Stern Legal Documents.
If she escalates from just cuckoo to potentially dangerous, for god’s sake don’t be afraid to call the police. Most departments have a non-emergency number that’s good for just this sort of thing.
Do talk to a lawyer about the fence, but unless s/he advises you otherwise, don’t make a fuss right now. (You can make a fuss when you sell, as the fence reduces your property value.) Take the high road. You want to play the role of the cooperative, long-suffering neighbor who simply cannot take any more for the HOA/police. This makes the idiot next door look worse by comparison. Corrolary: be firm, but keep your cool when dealing with the HOA or any other authority types. Make it clear that you know your rights and will defend them, but let her be the one to blow her stack and make a fool of herself.
Honestly, after dealing with a slew of angry neighbors, I started getting vengeance.
When my downstairs neighbor was cranking the music at 8am when my kids were still sleeping, I went downstairs to the pipes and such and shut off the water to their house.
I’ve slashed tires (alhtough I wouldn’t do that now) and done cosmetic attacks to property.
In your circumstances, I would try one last time to make things cool.
Barring that, rags soaked in linseed oil shoved in various places will work just fine.
We had similar problems where I work, and our lawyer’s advice was simply: don’t respond to anything the neighbour says. Just don’t engage. She’ll get bored eventually (hopefully). Bad neighbours are terrible, but neighbourly feuds are worse.
ok… do not cut down the tree… unless it is really in bad shape…
about the fence…
find out exactly the measurement… and how long it is… if it is 3" on your line by 30 feet, that is a lot of valuable land…
not sure how all the math works out… somewhere about 9.5 square feet I think…
I would wait until she complains about the tree again… and then say… "you are right… but I don’t have the money to do it right now… but i did just find out that you are on 9.5 square feet of my property… I can sell it to you for $1000 per square foot, and then I will have the oney to cover the cost… "
she will freak out and start screaming…
at that point you say… “ok, don’t buy the land… just move you fence off of it.”
she will keep on you about the tree, but unless it is against the law to have it… keep it… but make her do something about the fencce because it is within your rights.