# Unregistered bull, how about defecating here instead? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673 "2005-09-02T01:49:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/301 "2005-09-04T16:16:05Z")
I just visited, and after seeing a commercial, it allowed me to see what I think is the premium site. However, I can not find the articles to which you refer. These don’t seem to be them. > **[Four legs good, two legs bad](https://www.economist.com/britain/2005/08/25/four-legs-good-two-legs-bad)** > > Britain is the best place in the world to be a laboratory animal, but the worst place to breed one [http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story\_id=S'(X%20-Q1'%2B%200%20S](http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%28X%20%2DQ1%27%2B%200%20S%0A) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/302 "2005-09-04T16:17:21Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > Good article in the Economist this past week that discusses the subject (at least for the U.K. I’d link it, but it’s for premium subscribers only in the online version (so I do not think it would do much good). **Lefty** or **Sly Frog** –Can you explain why we need to know how burns _kill_ someone? There really is no treatment after someone has died. Or do they just burn the dogs to the point of death and _then_ treat them? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/303 "2005-09-04T16:21:39Z")
My W.A.G. would be that it is not about treatement, but instead about how burns form. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/304 "2005-09-04T16:53:40Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > \ Come back soon. I think I love you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/305 "2005-09-04T17:03:31Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > **Lefty** or **Sly Frog** –Can you explain why we need to know how burns _kill_ someone? There really is no treatment after someone has died. Or do they just burn the dogs to the point of death and _then_ treat them? I honestly don’t remember the exact details, but I believe that they burned the dogs to a point that the dogs looked as if they’d been scalded by a pot of boiling water or been trapped in a burning building–that is, until they looked like the sort of patients that regularly came into the burn center. And then they studied the effects of these burns, and especially studied how the dogs responded to highly experimental treatments, in the hopes that one of these highly experimental treatments would prove effective in healing such horrific burns. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/306 "2005-09-04T17:31:20Z")
I doubt this story will make a dent in **UB’s** willful ignorance, but [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) is reporting on [Evacuees anguished at leaving pets behind](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.pets.ap/index.html): > [@](#): > > The fate of pets is a huge but underappreciated cause of anguish for storm survivors, said Richard Garfield, professor of international clinical nursing at New York’s Columbia University. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/307 "2005-09-04T17:47:56Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I doubt this story will make a dent in **UB’s** willful ignorance, but [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) is reporting on [Evacuees anguished at leaving pets behind](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.pets.ap/index.html): and this is the crux of it. people do get attached to their animals. and if rescuing an animal eases human anguish then am all for it. I note that in none of these 7 pages anyone is saying they want to rescue farm animals or idigenous fauna, so really its all about people and their emotional props. ( hey its better than a bottle) its no different than someone running out of a burning house and going back to rescue a photo of old auntie edna! if it gives comfort to stressed out folk then I think its worthwhile. as for back in the original post, I just thought that …ok some dude is at considerable risk to himself taking food and clothing to NO but on his return journey is taking potential food out of NO. then I re-read and realised it was pets he was rescuing. okay hats off to him, if the property has value to a person then I don’t care whether its animal, mineral or vegetable its still a service to a human being ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/308 "2005-09-05T03:09:35Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I just visited, and after seeing a commercial, it allowed me to see what I think is the premium site. However, I can not find the articles to which you refer. > > These don’t seem to be them. > > [http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story\_id=4316824](http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4316824) > > [http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story\_id=S'(X%20-Q1'%2B%200%20S](http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%28X%20%2DQ1%27%2B%200%20S%0A) Nope, you got them. Particularly in the first one, there is discussion regarding some of the uses of live animal testing, and it touches on why they still use live animals in certain circumstances. (When I mentioned the article, I was talking generally in response to someone’s post on live animal testing and why they still do it. I apologize if you thought it was relevant to the New Orleans animal rescue discussion; it was not in reference to that.) ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/309 "2005-09-05T03:21:29Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > (When I mentioned the article, I was talking generally in response to someone’s post on live animal testing and why they still do it. I apologize if you thought it was relevant to the New Orleans animal rescue discussion; it was not in reference to that.) No, I thought you were specifically talking about testing burn cures on dogs. ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/310 "2005-09-05T13:41:48Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > People have said that they’d only “reluctantly, and with a lot of tears” sacrifice their pets for humans, or said they would choose their pets over humans, and I’m the psychopath? At least I can put myself into another human’s shoes and see the ways in which their death or suffering will hurt them, as well as extrapolate how their survival will impact the future and the world, instead of judging who should live or die based on how they’ve treated me. Personally I found **PapSett** ’s post to be one of the most psychopathic and/or infantile things I’ve ever read, but then I’m not a sweetie. And it’s people like you tht make me like dogs better. I gave an honest , heart-felt response , and don’r expect anyone to agree with me … But I stand by what I said. Untill you have known the kind of pain I have been subjected to for 45 long years , you have no idea where I am coming from . And BTW… I am a she/her , not he/him . ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/311 "2005-09-05T15:08:49Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > And it’s people like you tht make me like dogs better. I gave an honest , heart-felt response , and don’r expect anyone to agree with me … But I stand by what I said. Untill you have known the kind of pain I have been subjected to for 45 long years , you have no idea where I am coming from . > > And BTW… I am a she/her , not he/him . It’s probably a lot like the pain I’ve been subjected to for twenty-four long years. People have betrayed me, ridiculed me, made me feel like shit… but I’d still save them over an animal. Hell, if it came down to choosing between seeing one of my old pets slaughtered in the most brutal way possible and knowing that some Ethiopian kid was going to lose his pinky finger, I’d save the kid and his finger. Other living things, be they human or non-human, are not just implements to our own happiness. They have worth on their own merits, and while I know it will make me sound like a psychopath, I believe that a human life has more worth than a non-human one, both to the human and to the world at large. You don’t have to agree with me on this, I’d still save you over a pet anyway. Too bad you wouldn’t do likewise. > [@liberty3701](#): > > That being said, I am so fucking sick of people saying humans have inherently more value than animals. Life is life, period. If you seriously think that the differences between humans and animals are skin deep, or end at the animals’ lack of opposable thumbs, you need a biology lesson stat. > [@](#): > > And, you know, I hope I never have to choose between saving a human or an animal, because I’d probably have to save the person, but I would never let myself forget that something died because I couldn’t do enough. There’s that qualifier “probably” again. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/312 "2005-09-05T15:17:09Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > If you seriously think that the differences between humans and animals are skin deep, or end at the animals’ lack of opposable thumbs, you need a biology lesson stat. Care to elaborate on this statement? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/313 "2005-09-05T15:17:17Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > If you seriously think that the differences between humans and animals are skin deep, or end at the animals’ lack of opposable thumbs, you need a biology lesson stat. That’s silly and irrelevant: a biology lesson would tell you that you share 99% of your DNA with chimpanzees, and that there are tremendous differences between one person and another, and that the same neurological responses that indicate our own perception of pain, love, anger, and suffering occur in many other animals. None of that, naturally, means that you’re obligated to support animal rights. **Papsett** , I hear where you’re coming from, and I hope you’re never put in a position where you need to choose whether a person or another animal dies. Most people are fortunately never in that position. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/314 "2005-09-05T15:27:25Z")
Recently released results of the Chimpanzee Genome Project indicate that we share 96% of our genes with chimps. [Cite.](http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/aug2005/nhgri-31.htm) This of course doesn’t change my perceptions regarding the signifigance of other animals to me as an individual, to humans in general, and to the global ecosystem. But I wanted to get the more recent numbers on the table for the sake of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/315 "2005-09-05T15:58:15Z")
> [@honeydewgrrl](#): > > Recently released results of the Chimpanzee Genome Project indicate that we share 96% of our genes with chimps. [Cite.](http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/aug2005/nhgri-31.htm) D’oh! I thought I’d heard it was 99% according to those figures. My bad. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/316 "2005-09-05T15:59:57Z")
Actually, reading more carefully, the cite says: > [@](#): > > The consortium found that the chimp and human genomes are very similar and encode very similar proteins. The DNA sequence that can be directly compared between the two genomes is almost 99 percent identical. When DNA insertions and deletions are taken into account, humans and chimps still share 96 percent of their sequence. So it looks as if either figure may be correct, depending on what you mean by sharing DNA. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/317 "2005-09-05T16:18:00Z")
> [@honeydewgrrl](#): > > Care to elaborate on this statement? Humans have a consciousness. We have complex systems of communication. We have the ability to make decisions. We are one of the few animals who can change our environment, for better or worse, and we’re the only ones who do it intentionally. We’re the only animals who can plan for, or even imagine, the future, and one of the only species who can think about or care about the past (apparently chimps and elephants have death rituals that point to their being able to understand the past, but it is not definite). All of this is due to differences in the brain. A lot of people treat animals as if they were just little furry retarded human beings, but in fact the differences between the species are very deep. We share the majority of our genes with flatworms, too. A lot of those genes are stuff that just codes for “life in general,” meaning that all living things have those genes. Of course, that doesn’t mean that animals can’t suffer or feel pain or that their lives don’t matter; it just means that we are very different from them. Personally, I think the way humans treat their “furbabies,” like they were children or siblings, is demeaning to both the humans and the animals. It ignores the true reality of human-animal relations, and sometimes prevents the humans from forming bonds with creatures who can reciprocate our feelings on our level. Which leads to people wanting to save non-humans over the other creatures operating in our same reality. Which is what I’m taking to task. > [@LHoD](#): > > None of that, naturally, means that you’re obligated to support animal rights. I support animal rights–the right of animals not to suffer needlessly, the right of animals to be left alone in their natural environments. I just don’t believe their lives are equal to human ones, or even close to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/318 "2005-09-05T16:37:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What is obvious to me whenever anyone pathologically obsesses over “caring more for animals than humans”, is that that person personally resents love and attention given to animals which he feels HE deserves but is not getting. > [@davenportavenger](#): > > Personally, I think the way humans treat their “furbabies,” like they were children or siblings, is demeaning to both the humans and the animals. It ignores the true reality of human-animal relations, and sometimes prevents the humans from forming bonds with creatures who can reciprocate our feelings on our level. :dubious: The Houston SPCA is taking in thousands of animals from Louisiana, including pets belonging to refugees. To donate to this effort, go [here](http://www.spcahouston.org). ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/319 "2005-09-05T16:41:06Z")
I’m not thinking of myself. I get enough attention and love from other people, thanks. I’m thinking more of the “furparents” whose mental health may be compromised by their pathological devotion to their pets. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673/320 "2005-09-05T16:46:55Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > I’m not thinking of myself. I get enough attention and love from other people, thanks. I’m thinking more of the “furparents”\*\* whose mental health may be compromised by their pathological devotion to their pets\*\*. bolding mine How prevalent a phenomenon is this? Can you provide a reliable cite? Do you have any credentials that would qualify you to make judgements concerning “mental health” and “pathological devotion”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-how-about-defecating-here-instead/319673.md?page=17)