# Unregistered Bull, learn to debate then come back to GD **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 18, 2005, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952 "2005-07-18T07:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/1 "2005-07-18T07:07:34Z")
[Context](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325936) [More Context](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=323619) The forum is called Great Debates. Arguments. Not angry, unsupported assertions. The debating style that involves asserting the opposite of the OP in a hostile way without any reasoning or evidence is beyond inane. It’s a waste of everyone’s time. So, please, spare the rest of us. This is the last time I will respond to one of your posts, and I’m doing it here so as not to distract from the real debate. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > > [@Zhao Daoli](#): > > > > Premise 1: Some animals suffer as some humans do, and think as some humans do. > > 1st premise is false. They aren’t humans. They simply don’t have the same type of brains to suffer in a manner like a human. They don’t suffer or think the same way. Ok, you think premise 1 is false. Your reasoning, if parsed into something logical, seems to be: no animal feels pain like a human does because an animal’s brain is different. I might be able to turn that into an argument if I added a lot of assumptions, but as it stands, its little more than a vague assertion. If you want to debate someone, in the future you should consider offering reasons and evidence. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > > [@Zhao Daoli](#): > > > > Premise 2: A system of rights should be consistent; it should not give and deny rights arbitrarily. > > 2nd premise is false. A prisoner or a minor child doesn’t have the same rights as adult non-criminal. This is also a non-response. Premise 2 is about \* arbitrarily \* giving and denying basic rights. Prisoners and children aren’t denied basic rights, and the rights they are denied aren’t denied arbitrarily. You do know that you are not free to kill children for your pleasure, right? > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > > [@Zhao Daoli](#): > > > > Premise 4: There is no morally relevant difference between humans and animals that makes one deserve rights and not the other. > > 4th premise is blatantly false unless your are insane. Animals are lesser beings mental and physical capacities. When you get a monkey to write a Declaration of Independence or a Bill of Rights, I might listen to you. Oh, that nice. You’ve asserted your position again without addressing the argument in the OP. Thanks, we’re all convinced now. Your hostile tone also really helps us listen to you. Care to offer an argument? No, I guess that won’t ever happen. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Your other point: Animal use is only immoral when it when a treatment isn’t based on cultural, traditional, religous, or logical medical or commercial use. Trying to stop these uses is immoral. And it is because they aren’t humans. This doesn’t even need a response. It’s perfect just by itself. * * * Sometimes, adults like to have reasoned debates about complex issues. This often involves listening to things you disagree with, and offering your reasons for disagreeing. From time to time, people will take a position just for the sake of finding out what well-reasoned arguments exist to refute that position. Without people like you, this can happen with civility and actually manage to educate some people. It clearly escaped your attention that the point of the OP was to outline the animal rights position so that we could see where its premises are wrong. To do this, people offer arguments against the premises, like most people did. Since you do not understand this, please stay out of my thread. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/2 "2005-07-18T07:13:07Z")
A little pissed are you? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/3 "2005-07-18T07:44:58Z")
I can understand the OPs frustration, but seriously, it’s not pitworthy. By toning it down just a smidgin you could have stuck the entire post in GD as a response. That would have added to the discussion and discredited Unregistered Bull’s position for us lurkers in that thread. It’s wasted here, particulraly given that you haven’t even linked to this thread in that one. Which reminds me, I got the impression that it was board ettiquette to inform the pittee. Sorry but you’ve just produced a very lame pit post. No real vitriol. The barest hint of flaming. Well reasoned. Courteous to the subject. Doesn’t mention goat felching even once. Too much light, not enough heat. Pathetic attampt Zhao. Resubmit it, you goat felcher. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/4 "2005-07-18T12:15:20Z")
How did you miss the most obnoxious offense? > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Therefore: As usual, animal rights is something believed by the mentally disturbed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/5 "2005-07-18T13:22:26Z")
You might have a point except that less than 10% of the threads in GD are actually debates, and if 1% of those are great, it’s a good week. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/6 "2005-07-18T15:19:36Z")
I agree with the OP. **Unregistered Bull** seems to exist on the board solely for the purpose of calling people who support animal welfare “insane,” and deceitfully conflating PETA and HSUS. He never presents arguments, never marshalls facts or logic in support of his position; he just offers insults that somehow don’t get smacked down by the mods. He’s a waste of bandwidth, and the pitting is entirely in order. Mostly, I think it’s wise to ignore him in animal rights/welfare threads, just as it’s wise to ignore **Lekatt** in science threads. Neither ever offers anything of interest, unless you find children smearing their verbal turds around to be interesting. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/7 "2005-07-18T16:54:18Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > ``` > I can understand the OPs frustration, but seriously, it's not pitworthy. By toning it down just a smidgin you could have stuck the entire post in GD as a response. That would have added to the discussion and discredited Unregistered Bull's position for us lurkers in that thread. It's wasted here, particulraly given that you haven't even linked to this thread in that one. > > ``` > > Which reminds me, I got the impression that it was board ettiquette to inform the pittee. > > Sorry but you’ve just produced a very lame pit post. No real vitriol. The barest hint of flaming. Well reasoned. Courteous to the subject. Doesn’t mention goat felching even once. Too much light, not enough heat. > Pathetic attampt Zhao. Resubmit it, you goat felcher. Well, I figured that telling someone to get out of my thread was inappopriate GD behavior. And I figured that the post was implying UB’s stupidity, which I thought was also not kosher in GD. As for not posting the link, I really didn’t want to distract from the debate and I figured UB would find it because his name is in the title. Am I obligated to e-mail him? 🙂 Next time I’ll swear more. It’s my first pitting, I’m learning. > [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > You might have a point except that less than 10% of the threads in GD are actually debates, and if 1% of those are great, it’s a good week. Well, regardless of how other threads go, I want to keep my threads civil and intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/8 "2005-07-18T17:53:24Z")
Since you have already given him the attention he craves, what I really want to know is if an animal rights supporter is defective like a communist or like a criminal? These ideas are fascinating! ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/9 "2005-07-19T04:17:51Z")
I really think that animal rights believers are mentally disturbed (I’m not talking about religous views like those held by Jews or Hindus BTW). When they start trying to force people to believe and act as they do, I think that they become evil. I hate them to their core. They are some of the worst scum in the world AFAIC and a true danger to human rights. I hate people like Zaho Dahli and Lefthand of Dorkness like a black man hates a Klansman or Jew hates a Nazi. I consider them to be evil like a Klansmen or Nazi and to have just as warped sensibilities. So I really don’t give a fuck if they pit me or not. The fact that the world is so full of dumbasses anymore that lowlife scum with insane ideas like Zaho and Lefthand are taken seriously makes them in a sense worse because their ideas are accepted. I have a tremendous respect for human rights. I’m pro Gay marriage. I am against racial profiling of Arabs or Muslims because of 9/11. I feel that the bigotry is the main fuel of the Minutemen groups popping up in the US. I think Guatanamo is outrage. I’m not going to change that trend by agreeing with or even respecting viewpoints where animals are put on same plane as human beings or human beings are punished and forced not to use animals as their tradition, culture, or religion has had them doing for eons and eons. I’m not mean to animals IMO. I even think that lots of things are cruel to animals such as spaying or neutering for non-health reasons or crate training. Hell, I think crate training is extremely cruel. I don’t own a dog because I don’t feel that I could give a dog the exercise or space that one deserves. But I have the human decency not to try to force others to adhere to what I believe when it comes down to how I traditionally treat animals. PETA, HSUS, and their supporters, such as Zaho and Lefthand, lack that human decency. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/10 "2005-07-19T04:33:45Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > That would have added to the discussion and discredited Unregistered Bull’s position LOL. Call me on the mentally disturbed / insane part if you want as not being polite. But I don’t see anything discrediting posted by Zhao. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/11 "2005-07-19T04:58:01Z")
1. Let me add reading to the list of skills to work on. It’s Zhao, not Zaho. 2. My role in these threads has been to defend the AR argument for the purpose of having an educational debate. Had you read the PETA thread at all, you’d have seen that I disagree with animal rights. See point 1. 3. Even if I was an AR supporter, trying to convince you of the legitimacy of my position is not forcing you to do anything. It’s democracy. Look it up (or have someone literate do it for you). 4. Your argument that since animals have been treated this way for a long time they ought to continue to be treated this way is…well, it’s beyond stupid. Moreover, since you apparently agree with other examples of societal change (no more lynchings, for example), you don’t even believe your own stupid argument. So not only are you breathtakingly deficient in critical thinking skills, you’re also a hypocrite. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/12 "2005-07-19T08:01:36Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I don’t own a dog because I don’t feel that I could give a dog the exercise or space that one deserves. It’d find plenty of space in the back of your truck: > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > For me, unless it’s unbelievably cold or raining really hard or hailing, dogs don’t belong inside my truck. Hell, they don’t belong in my house AFAIC either. > [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Dogs aren’t kids. And, in my case, the mutt’s usually in the back. And “whackos” is polite term that I use for the lowlife scumbags that hate freedom and elevate animals to human status that support this type of bullshit legislation. [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6346015) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/13 "2005-07-19T10:32:20Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I really think that animal rights believers are mentally disturbed (I’m not talking about religous views like those held by Jews or Hindus BTW). > > When they start trying to force people to believe and act as they do, I think that they become evil. > > I hate them to their core. They are some of the worst scum in the world AFAIC and a true danger to human rights. I hate people like Zaho Dahli and Lefthand of Dorkness like a black man hates a Klansman or Jew hates a Nazi. I consider them to be evil like a Klansmen or Nazi and to have just as warped sensibilities. So I really don’t give a fuck if they pit me or not. The fact that the world is so full of dumbasses anymore that lowlife scum with insane ideas like Zaho and Lefthand are taken seriously makes them in a sense worse because their ideas are accepted. > > I have a tremendous respect for human rights. I’m pro Gay marriage. I am against racial profiling of Arabs or Muslims because of 9/11. I feel that the bigotry is the main fuel of the Minutemen groups popping up in the US. I think Guatanamo is outrage. I’m not going to change that trend by agreeing with or even respecting viewpoints where animals are put on same plane as human beings or human beings are punished and forced not to use animals as their tradition, culture, or religion has had them doing for eons and eons. > > I’m not mean to animals IMO. I even think that lots of things are cruel to animals such as spaying or neutering for non-health reasons or crate training. Hell, I think crate training is extremely cruel. I don’t own a dog because I don’t feel that I could give a dog the exercise or space that one deserves. But I have the human decency not to try to force others to adhere to what I believe when it comes down to how I traditionally treat animals. PETA, HSUS, and their supporters, such as Zaho and Lefthand, lack that human decency. Simply disagreeing with you is enough to make you hate them? If you start with the premise that anyone that believes something differently than you is scum, then you don’t belong in GD. The idea is that you present ideas, you debate ideas, you even attack ideas, but you keep it civil and don’t insult the others. Since you admit to being incapable of this, then you should not attempt a post in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/14 "2005-07-19T10:35:22Z")
**Unregistered Bull** hates me like he hates a Klansman? Eh. Somehow I’ll survive, get on with my life, though I might cry for hours as I review the ballot-box victories of the animal welfare movement. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/15 "2005-07-19T11:10:18Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > And “whackos” is polite term that I use for the lowlife scumbags that hate freedom and elevate animals to human status that support this type of bullshit legislation. Why do animal lover hate America so much? I reserve my polite term “clinically insane” for those lowlife scumbags that have such frothing, out of porportion hate for people who love animals (love them in the platonic way, you pervs!). ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/16 "2005-07-19T11:50:49Z")
[QUOTE=The Gaspode] It’d find plenty of space in the back of your truck:/QUOTE] And how is this contradictory? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/17 "2005-07-19T11:53:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Simply disagreeing with you is enough to make you hate them? If you start with the premise that anyone that believes something differently than you is scum, then you don’t belong in GD. The idea is that you present ideas, you debate ideas, you even attack ideas, but you keep it civil and don’t insult the others. Since you admit to being incapable of this, then you should not attempt a post in GD. They want to destroy my way of life. I have kept it civil. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/18 "2005-07-19T11:59:58Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > **Unregistered Bull** hates me like he hates a Klansman? Eh. Somehow I’ll survive, get on with my life, though I might cry for hours as I review the ballot-box victories of the animal welfare movement. > > Daniel It’s a fight for what is right. I guarantee you that pro hunting and trapping rights organizations are fighting. And have had successes. And big agriculture is making moves to protect themselves as well. You score little points. You destroy the little, weak people. But the fight isn’t over yet. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/19 "2005-07-19T12:04:21Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Why do animal lover hate America so much? > I reserve my polite term “clinically insane” for those lowlife scumbags that have such frothing, out of porportion hate for people who love animals (love them in the platonic way, you pervs!). It’s not about loving animals. It’s about respecting humans. If these ‘animal lovers,’ didn’t try to force their views on others, then there wouldn’t be much of a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952/20 "2005-07-19T12:08:35Z")
> [@Zhao Daoli](#): > > 1. Your argument that since animals have been treated this way for a long time they ought to continue to be treated this way is…well, it’s beyond stupid. Moreover, since you apparently agree with other examples of societal change (no more lynchings, for example), you don’t even believe your own stupid argument. So not only are you breathtakingly deficient in critical thinking skills, you’re also a hypocrite. > > That is all. Actually, how stupid can you be? Animals aren’t humans. Humans deserve more respect. I agree with positive societal change for human beings. AR is a negative societal change for human beings. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unregistered-bull-learn-to-debate-then-come-back-to-gd/312952.md?page=2)