# Unreliable narrator...but what about unreliable REALITY in fiction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 30, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128 "2007-05-30T23:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/21 "2007-05-31T01:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=SmackFu] It’s been at least 10 years since I read it, but in Pet Semetary, isn’t there a whole chapter that turns out to be a dream at the end? [/QUOTE] Sorta kinda. When Gage is killed his father realizes that it was a nightmare and Gage becomes all the more precious to him, then eventually becomes star athlete and all but at some point Gage removes his hat and his brains spill out and Creed realizes the death was real and the ‘it was a dream’ part is a dream (the reader being way ahead of him of course as the whole scenario gets progressively more surreal). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/22 "2007-05-31T01:38:37Z")
I always said that _12 Monkeys_ works just as plausibly if you assume Cole was a genuine time traveler or if you assume he was an insane man who hallucinated he traveled in time. There’s evidence in the movie to support both intepretations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/23 "2007-05-31T02:00:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I always said that 12 Monkeys works just as plausibly if you assume Cole was a genuine time traveler or if you assume he was an insane man who hallucinated he traveled in time. There’s evidence in the movie to support both intepretations. Then how do you explain him showing up in stock photography from WWII and such? ---
**Author:** ![Intravenus\_De\_Milo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Intravenus\_De\_Milo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intravenus_De_Milo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/24 "2007-05-31T03:01:25Z")
Well, Satoshi Kon’s films are somewhat notorious for at least questionable reality - most notably **Perfect Blue** and **Millennium Actress**. Each one is made of an ever-changing combination of “real” reality, flashbacks, dream-like sequences, and even what may be hallucinations - and often it isn’t clear where any one scene might fall on that spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/25 "2007-05-31T03:05:27Z")
24 posts and not a mention of _Vanilla Sky?_ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/26 "2007-05-31T03:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] 24 posts and not a mention of _Vanilla Sky?_ [/QUOTE] Or it’s better, Cruiseless predecessor, _Open Your Eyes_. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/27 "2007-05-31T03:20:45Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Or it’s better, Cruiseless predecessor, _Open Your Eyes_. [/QUOTE] But not Cruzless, thankfully. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/28 "2007-05-31T03:58:24Z")
[QUOTE=BluePitbull] Sounds like bad lazy writing. So instead of wraping up all storylines, it turns out that the whole story never happened to the characters? [/QUOTE] Normally I despise the “it was all a dream” trope (even started a thread about it a while back) but in these two instances it works beautifully. It’s not bad or lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/29 "2007-05-31T04:42:46Z")
Maybe not exactly what the OP was asking for, but the parody version of Harry Potter gets about half or two thirds through the book, when it’s revealed that everything you’ve read up to then is being filmed on a set. Then after some more narrative, Harry gets the idea of writing a book-the book the story is taking place in. Things start becoming self-referential and… well, reality sort of falls apart at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/30 "2007-05-31T04:51:37Z")
“An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge” is the definitive example of this. _The Black Corridor_ by Michael Moorcock is one of those is-it-real-or-an-hallucination stories. James Branch Cabell kind of took it in the other direction–he wrote himself into a fictional family tree as a descendant of one of his characters. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/31 "2007-05-31T05:00:31Z")
[QUOTE=BluePitbull] Sounds like bad lazy writing. So instead of wraping up all storylines, it turns out that the whole story never happened to the characters? [/QUOTE] I think it was more of a last minute gag then anything else. What about The Usual Suspects (to a point) Or Sixth Sense Or maybe even Saw 2 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/32 "2007-05-31T06:56:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I actually thought of my favorite Dick story (ahem) after reading the OP, [Man in the High Castle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_In_the_High_Castle). I won’t give spoilers (the wiki does), but it’s about an alternate history in which the Nazis won WW2, and the main character discovers a banned novel {_Grasshopper Lies Heavy_} that’s an alternate history in which FDR was never assassinated and Germany lost the war (i.e. our own timeline). [/QUOTE] Just glancing at my bookshelf shows me two other books where reality is a bit flexible, _Galactic Pot Healer_ and _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_. Then there is Hubbard’s _Typewriter in the Sky_, where God turns out to be a hack writer in a dirty bathrobe. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/33 "2007-05-31T08:31:40Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Just glancing at my bookshelf shows me two other books where reality is a bit flexible, _Galactic Pot Healer_ and _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_ [/QUOTE] I thought of _Maze of Death_, which seems to have a sort of bog standard twist at the end (a world where everyone dies is part of a group dream made up by a computer to keep the crew of a crippled space ship sane) until someone really does do a little warp out of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/34 "2007-05-31T11:36:25Z")
_The Others_ sort of fits here. Unreliable reality is sort of the whole point of _Rashomon_ and _Courage Under Fire_. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/35 "2007-05-31T22:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=BluePitbull] Sounds like bad lazy writing. So instead of wraping up all storylines, it turns out that the whole story never happened to the characters? [/QUOTE] Looooong before “Newhart” and “St. Elsewhere”, Monty Python parodied the “It was all just a dream!” scenario. In the skit, Michael Palin is a hapless British twit stuck in a Soviet jail-cell, awaiting execution. He closes his eyes, the shot gets wavy, dissolves, and… …He’s back in his yard in merry ol’ England, being served an ice tea by his dear ol’ mum (played by Eric Idle). Palin: Mother! I’m back in England! It was all just a dream. Idle: (Chuckles) No dear. THIS is the dream. You’re really still in that cell. Suddenly, the shot becomes wavy, dissolves, and… Palin is back in the Soviet jail-cell. Anyway, “the Wizard of Oz” fits the bill for an unreliable reality. I mean, a world in full color??? Everybody knows the world is sepia-toned! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/36 "2007-05-31T22:25:55Z")
_Memento_ is kind of like this. Throug most of the movie we seem to be fairly certain of what is going on, albeit in a fascinating way, but in the end it is put to question. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/37 "2007-05-31T22:42:11Z")
The “Red Dwarf” episode “Back To Reality”? The gang wake up to discover that they’ve been playing the total immersion virtual reality game Red Dwarf for the past 4 years, and are horrified to discover that the “real” selves that they’ve apparently been escaping all these years. > **[Back to Reality (Red Dwarf)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_Reality_%28Red_Dwarf_episode%29)** > > "Back to Reality" is the sixth and final episode of science fiction sitcom Red Dwarf Series 5, and the 30th in the series' run. It was first broadcast on the British television channel BBC2 on 26 March 1992, written by Rob Grant and Doug Naylor and directed by Juliet May and Grant Naylor. The plot features the crew waking up after a crash to discover that the last four years of their lives has been spent in a "Total Immersion Video Game" called Red Dwarf. This episode marks the final Dave List... “Red Dwarf” often had similar reality-warping episodes involving time paradoxes, senile computers playing practical jokes, and suchlike. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/38 "2007-05-31T22:56:42Z")
[QUOTE=The New and Improved Superman] Looooong before “Newhart” and “St. Elsewhere”, Monty Python parodied the “It was all just a dream!” scenario. In the skit, Michael Palin is a hapless British twit stuck in a Soviet jail-cell, awaiting execution. He closes his eyes, the shot gets wavy, dissolves, and… …He’s back in his yard in merry ol’ England, being served an ice tea by his dear ol’ mum (played by Eric Idle). Palin: Mother! I’m back in England! It was all just a dream. Idle: (Chuckles) No dear. THIS is the dream. You’re really still in that cell. Suddenly, the shot becomes wavy, dissolves, and… Palin is back in the Soviet jail-cell. [/QUOTE] I guess we know where he got the idea for the end of _Brazil_. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/39 "2007-06-01T01:06:45Z")
Allen Steele’s _A King Of Infinite Space_. At the very end of the book he changes, well, damn near everything about the characters’ motivations (and identities). It’s very lame and comes off as though he wrote himself into a corner and needed a way to wrap it up while simultaneously tacking on a segue to an (as yet, thankfully unwritten) follow-up. The book is based on a short story (_Working For Mister Chicago_), and I imagine the author thought he was being rather clever by upending the reader’s expectations, but it was just so soap-opera. This was the book that made me give up on Allen Steele. On second thought, no, that book would be _Coyote_. Don’t let his recent decline turn you off, though, because his _Sex And Violence In Zero G_ is one awesome collection of hard sci-fi short stories, better than any of his novels, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128/40 "2007-06-01T02:57:24Z")
_Total Recall_. Arnold’s adventure might be real, or it might be a memory implant. The audience never finds out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unreliable-narrator-but-what-about-unreliable-reality-in-fiction/406128.md?page=3)