# Unrepentant pair of 14 year old humpers face jail. Fair or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722 "2003-08-21T17:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ryle\_Dup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Ryle\_Dup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryle_Dup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/21 "2003-08-22T02:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*I don’t think anyone in this thread has said that, or suported it **Ryle**. Eh, seems to be the logical conclusion since you yourself prety much think 14 year olds are not ready to have sex. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As to why it’s the law? IANAL, but imho, the line needs to be drawn somewhere, And I think that that is how those in the legal system arrive at an “age of consent”. > \*\* The age of consent is there for people of different ages, none of the courts business if 2 14 year olds want to get it on, IMO. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As parents we keep a sharp eye on our toddlers and preschoolers so that they don’t wander out into the roadway or get snatched by some pervert. \*\* I’m not a parent, but theres a difference between protected sex (which I’m all for) and possibly dying / being molested. You can’t compare the two. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I’m sure this seems pretty unfair to the toddlers/preschoolers, who WANT to go outside the fence to pick the pretty flowers over there, or who WANT to go off to the toy section by themselves. \*\* Right, I agree toddlers/preschoolers cannot comprehend it themselves, but teenagers may be able to, why not instead explain your reason to them? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Studies have shown that even small children who get the full-on, well informed “talk” about bad strangers etc, are STILL likely to wander off with the nice man "looking for his puppy’. \*\* Completely different with teenagers and our rebellious characteristics. > [@](#): > > \*\* > WE, as parents know what the dangers are, even if the children chomping at the bit to be independent may not. \*\* You’ll get alot farther explaining the actual reasoning behind decisions rather than talking down at teens saying this is how it is. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > Now, take teens (PLEASE! badum pAH :D), don’t you remember when you were one? When you knew EVERYTHING, and were 10 feet tall and bullet-proof??? \*\* I still am, yes sometimes I can feel that way due to hormones but at heart I’m a rational logical person, as are most teens. You’re correct that they may decide to act towards their hormones more than towards themselves, but it doesn’t justify the iron fist of punishment without reason. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Deciding upon and age of consent for sex and enforcing it is done for the same reasons as protecting toddlers and preschoolers from THEIR dangers etc. \*\* Frankly, I and other teenagers are willing to learn the dangers of sexual relations. Yes I know about pregnancy, STD’s, protection, and birth control. Assuming all of the these factors are taken into consideration, I can’t see a logical arguement as to what is so dangerous about it. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Sexual activity with each other is NOT a life or death need, (no matter how teens feel otherwise). Our jobs as parents aren’t to be “the buddy” they’re to make sure that the child reaches adulthood in the best health; mentally, emotionally, psychologically and educationally possible. \*\* Maybe it isn’t to you, but to some teens it may feel like that, and teen suicide is no joke. I’m glad you think you know whats best, but how about a reason for it? Also, most parents do think that, but act contrary to the childs best interest. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Our job isn’t to make sure that they “have fun”. It’s to keep them safe, even if what we have to do, to make that happen is unpopular. \*\* Once again, please explain how stopping people from having sex when protected in several methods is keeping them safe. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > Hell, my sister and me just KEPT after and KEPT after my dad to let us drive. He sent us to school driver’s ed, AND to a professional driving school. And GOD was it embarrassing. > > HECK, why is every teen supposed to not be “mature enough” to drive until an age that the parents deem okay?? \*\* Because adults can be idiots too. If children learned to drive smaller cars from a younger age, they would be more aware of driving and be all over better drivers. Learning a skill past the age of 14 is alot more difficult then learning it as a child. \*\* > [@](#): > > Sure there are kids who are probably far and away more mature and more than emotionally and psychologically “readier” for sex than most of their peers. > > To keep the majority of kids as safe as possible, SOME sort of standard needs to be imposed. For the tiny minority of children that are thrrowbacks to our ancestor’s who married at 13 and 14 and moved out west on the wagons? That’s a shame. By and large, though, it’s a good thing that protects the children from themselves. \*\* See above on safety. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/22 "2003-08-22T03:41:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Two people CAN sexually assault each other, **RickJay**. Two people can assault each other, after all - why should it be different if sex is involved? Neither can consent to sex. \*\* I thought the theory behind statuatory rape laws was that an older party would, by virtue of extra years of maturity, be able to unduly coerce a young person into having sexual relations. How can two consenting (and when I say consenting, I mean _actually_ consenting, even though they aren’t _legally_ consenting) 14 year olds unduly coerce _each other_? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/23 "2003-08-22T03:43:10Z")
ARRRGGGH, You sure can write a lot! I’ll try to answer all your questions. I thought you might be a teen, but wasn’t sure and didn’t want to assume. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ryle Dup \* > \*\*Eh, seems to be the logical conclusion since you yourself prety much think 14 year olds are not ready to have sex. You’re right, I don’t. But I don’t “automatically think ALL 14 year olds shouldn’t have sex” as in your original question. I’ll allow as how, as in all of life there are exceptions. > [@](#): > > The age of consent is there for people of different ages, none of the courts business if 2 14 year olds want to get it on, IMO.\*\* What can happen is that the children make bad judgment calls. Yes, YOU seem to be a together young teen (boy?), but many teens, especially ones as young as 14, aren’t that responsible. In the case of these two, who seem (and I could be wrong, of course the paper may be biased), to be “Springer” candidates of the type seen during “I’ll be whore if I want an’ my momma cain’t stop me” variety. THIS is one of the things we as parents try to protect kids from doing. No, it may not be life threatening like a toddler going out into the street. At any rate, a bad decision like having sex too young can be “life” threatening, as in potentially ruinous to a college career, unwanted pregnancy, their education being threatened (due to the potential emotional upsets of “breaking up” etc etc). > [@](#): > > I’m not a parent, but theres a difference between protected sex (which I’m all for) and possibly dying / being molested. You can’t compare the two. > \*\* Again, perhaps YOU are responsible enough to remember a condom in the heat of the moment, but hell hafl the 20somethings don’t want the hassle of the “raincoat,” as the parent of teens (well one is full grown now), I seriously doubt that most teens can be responsible enough on a consistant basis. > [@](#): > > Right, I agree toddlers/preschoolers cannot comprehend it themselves, but teenagers may be able to, why not instead explain your reason to them? > \*\* Well, I didn’t put what I would say in my post, but were it me, (and it has beent) I definitely WOULD explain the whole thing to my children. I actually started when they were about 5 or 6. Not the WHOLE thing of course, but age appropriate stuff as they got older. And I generally followed THEIR lead (based on questions etc), or my instincts to know when they were ready for what. > [@](#): > > Completely different with teenagers and our rebellious characteristics. > \*\* Oh HONEY!! Believe me, I know, I’ve raised one, and I’ve got one about to turn 13. > [@](#): > > You’ll get alot farther explaining the actual reasoning behind decisions rather than talking down at teens saying this is how it is.\*\* Actually, I didn’t do that here, I simply didn’t elaborate. But yes, during and actual situation with an actual teen and their actual parent, of COURSE you would explain your reasoning and feelings to the child. > [@](#): > > I still am, yes sometimes I can feel that way due to hormones but at heart I’m a rational logical person, as are most teens. You’re correct that they may decide to act towards their hormones more than towards themselves, but it doesn’t justify the iron fist of punishment without reason. > \*\* You misunderstood my post, or perhaps didn’t read all the way. I don’t necessarily think that any teen caught in the sex act needs to be punished with “the iron fist”. I took my daughter to the doc when she was 16 and I found out she was sexually active. I wanted her healthy and pregnancy free. IMO? I would rather make sure she had protected sex, than go ahead and do it behind my back and end up pregnant, or with AIDS. > [@](#): > > Frankly, I and other teenagers are willing to learn the dangers of sexual relations. Yes I know about pregnancy, STD’s, protection, and birth control. Assuming all of the these factors are taken into consideration, I can’t see a logical arguement as to what is so dangerous about it.\*\* Yes, I believe that teens ARE willing to learn about sexual safety. Where the problem lies is in the “want it now/instant gratification” type attitude. Knowing, and doing in the heat of the moment are two different things. {quote]Maybe it isn’t to you, but to some teens it may feel like that, and teen suicide is no joke. I’m glad you think you know whats best, but how about a reason for it? Also, most parents do think that, but act contrary to the childs best interest. \*\* [/quote] Remember, I DID say that it might FEEL like a life or death matter to teens (I’ve been there, I didn’t hatch a full-grown mommy and get to skip all that). Lack of sex with another person isn’t going to kill you. And the “threat” of suicide, no matter how mild, or “for example” you meant it, is a bit of an example of what I mean by "not ready emotionally or psychologically. In fact, as **bobkitty** says VERY eloquently here:… > [@](#): > > “The teens, instead of having the good sense upon being discovered to get dressed, sit down at the kitchen table with mom, apologize for the mess they were about to inflict upon her bed, and have a discussion about how they cared for one another and felt they were ready for sex, chose to act childishly, in a manner consistent more with spoiled brats than mature individuals, and demand that mom call the police. Perhaps if they had chosen the first option- which, incidentally, would have gone a long way to prove they were indeed adult enough to engage in sexual relations- then mom would not have been provoked into calling the police, the young man would not be incarcerated, and the young woman would not have a warrant out for her arrest. Therefore, their actions/choices are unfortunately going to dictate their consequences.” The "if I can’t get sex, It could add to my natural teenage depression so much I _could_ commit suicide, is a milder, but still in the ballpark of spoilledly demanding one’s “way” or else. Besides, I’ve been clinically depressed. TRUST me, sex doesn’t “save you”. > [@](#): > > Once again, please explain how stopping people from having sex when protected in several methods is keeping them safe.\*\* Safe meaning safe to reach their absolute full adult potential, hich having sex too early CAN get in the way of (doesn’t mean it always will, for every teen), of COURSE you aren’t in the same physical danger as a toddler or preschooler who isn’t getting constant adult supervision. > [@](#): > > **Because adults can be idiots too. If children learned to drive smaller cars from a younger age, they would be more aware of driving and be all over better drivers. Learning a skill past the age of 14 is alot more difficult then learning it as a child.[/** Oh, ABSOLUTELY adults can be idiots!! It’s likely that your parents WERE idiots, in one way or another, that they want better for you (collective you, not YOU). ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/24 "2003-08-22T03:50:51Z")
ARgggh! Make that last phrase of the last sentence “AND that they want better for you…” ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/25 "2003-08-22T04:14:56Z")
As we all know, it is better for a teenager to be incarerated and get a record as a sex offender than to (god forbid) have consensual safe sex with their girlfriend or boyfriend. Don’t they know that the teenage body is not made to have sex? They should take a clue from nature. Seriously though - these parents obviously are not looking out for their kids. This law really needs to be changed so that it cannot be abused like this. If the kids are going to school, passing all their classes, and having safe consensual sex with someone their own age, then it is nothing short of evil for their parents to abuse this law to have them arrested, imprisoned, and registered as sex offenders. If they are skipping school and can’t be stopped, then by all means get the government to help with that. But consensual sex between 14 year olds should not be illegal, and therefore this law should not even exist for such parents to abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/26 "2003-08-22T04:21:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bobkitty \* > \*\*I was actually thinking more along the lines of “keep a better eye on the clock for mom’s impending arrival at home and make sure you lock the door.” But the car thing works too. 😉 \*\* Ahh, the “scramble to the bathroom and get dressed in a hurry” move. I know nothing about that. Nothing at all. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/27 "2003-08-22T04:31:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Ahh, the “scramble to the bathroom and get dressed in a hurry” move. I know nothing about that. Nothing at all. 😉 \*\* Huh?? What “move” are you talking about? 😃 I know from the “where the hell can we park, it’s still broad daylight and I have to be home at midnight” dilemma!! (psst, for those who don’t know, I live in AK). ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/28 "2003-08-22T04:37:15Z")
The key for me is _safe_ sex, which is a hard thing to prove these teenagers are having, and a hard thing to guarantee. One would hope that they are _always_ having “safe sex,” but what about that one time that they “forget”? The issue that many teenagers forget, I suspect, is that if there is an “oopsie” pregnancy, they have adult responsibilities to face. And how many 14-year-olds are up for that (if they don’t choose abortion)? And how many of these “overly protective” parents are probably thinking, “I sure as hell don’t want to have to support my 14-year-old’s kid, dammit.” Because we all know, that’s what often happens. The kid has sex, “thinks” they are mature enough to handle the responsibility, but when they have the baby, oh wait! I guess parenthood isn’t all they expected it to be. So either the taxpayers or the 14-year-old’s parents end up picking up the pieces. I’m not saying that this excuses charging these two kids (but their obnoxious and willful behavior doesn’t win any sympathy points), I am just saying that I suspect that many parents are thinking ahead and seeing how they could end up supporting a grandchild that they really can’t afford. (And yes, I know, the parents wouldn’t _have_ to support the grandchild, but someone will—them, the taxpayers, _someone_.) ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/29 "2003-08-22T04:46:27Z")
You know, you guys are right. Any kind of even marginally obnoxious behavior should result in conviction for a sex crime. Tailgating? Not giving up a seat on the bus? Sex crimes. Let’s see them get a job as a registered sex offender. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/30 "2003-08-22T04:53:58Z")
I wonder if the local prosecuting DA has higher political ambitions? ---
**Author:** ![Orange\_Skinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3be4f8/32.png) [@Orange\_Skinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orange_Skinner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/31 "2003-08-22T05:03:16Z")
I had a post typed out earlier, but I was logged off and it was lost. Fortunately, **Ryle Dup** and **Nightime** have posted in between then and now, and said the majority of what I was going to, and did a much better job than I would have, at that. The only thing I have left to add is, if these children are as problematic as one would assume, considering the steps the girl’s mother has taken–have any other options for highly rebellious teenagers been looked into before this rush to the police when it was discovered they were having sex? An attempt to control the child by parents, contact with the school, possibly counseling, etc? If this were the case, I might have a slightly easier time swallowing the fact that this is now a legal matter and not an issue between the kids and their parents than I do right now. Even if these steps had been made, (and again, assuming these kids really are that insanely out of control), I _still_ would have a hard time bringing my child before a court of law with these charges…especially considering the case would be setting a new precedent in consent laws, and therefore, it that it would be a case of _national interest_. I know I would not subject my daughter or my family to that kind of scrutiny. Especially when you consider that if convicted…your child will be a sex offender. And even if she isn’t convicted, she’ll have that stigma attached to her for the rest of her life…and good luck trying to establish a relationship with her after all this. Lastly, I’d just like to say that I’m with **Blalron** : Making a case for secondary sexual abuse is ridiculous, and in two ways: first because, as **Blalron** said, it implies that these teenagers coerced each other into have sex…come on! And secondly, because these charges make an absolute mockery of the victims of real sexual abuse. If you were to twist the law even further in the direction the prosecutor in the case is currently taking it, you could argue that a couple of 15 year olds that were making out had also sexually abused each other, as the passages **Otto** provided state that just _touching_ can be a form of secondary sexual abuse–if the defendant becomes aroused. And it’s true. Many teenagers are not responsible enough to handle sex, especially not many that 14 year-olds–though some are. But by the same token, there are also a lot of adults that aren’t mature enough to handle sex responsibly, either. No matter what age you set as the consensual cut-off, there are still going to be exceptions both above and below that point. The only thing that you can do is educate teenagers about the dangers (and most teenagers are today), and, as a parent, be open, and honest. Anything past the point of education and possibly parental punishment, I feel, has the potential to trample all over the basic freedoms of those of us who are mature enough to handle the responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/32 "2003-08-22T05:13:24Z")
Since I can’t speak for anyone else, I will speak for myself. At age thirteen, I fell into bad company. I discovered booze, marijuana, and worked very hard at discovering tawdry sex. It would be a couple more years before I actually managed this, but not for lack of trying. At age fourteen, I was quite sure I knew better than my parents did in regards booze, drugs, sex, and so forth. At fifteen, I got a driver’s license and became pretty much a raving rampaging zoo animal. At least, most fathers of fifteen-year-old girls would have thought so, and now, having raised a teenage daughter myself, I would be inclined to agree with them. Anyone who’s read any of the weird-assed tales of my youth I’ve posted here from time to time has a general idea of what I mean. If you AREN’T, then run a search using my username, as well as the words ASS, WATERMELON, WATERBED, CONVERTIBLE, DILDO, JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, BEER, ALLIGATOR, EXPLOSIVE, KRAZY GLUE, and CHICKEN… and you will have but the barest glimpse into the depravity and madness that was my gleefully misspent youth. And I am here to tell you, right goddamn now, WHY there are laws about this sort of thing on the books. They’re there to protect YOU from ME. Or, rather, to protect YOUR daughters from guys LIKE me. Or like the guy I was when I was a teener, anyway. I never got busted. I never went to jail. I never got anyone pregnant. I was a GOOD kid, in my own eyes… and I was quite careful. At least, as careful as I knew how to be. Years later, I look back at the young man I was, and I seriously wonder how in ghod’s name I made it out alive. Or at least without having to pay any heavy dues. Friends of mine from that time frame weren’t so lucky – a couple are dead, one’s a burnout, a couple got AIDS, and three others wound up with surprise children. I wasn’t really any smarter than any of those guys and gals. I was a combination of careful… …and smart… …but most of all, LUCKY. And while luck is a peachy thing, depending on it will ultimately result in Bad Things Happening. Particularly when you’re playing for high stakes. …but I was young, and I was too smart for my own good. I was smart enough to realize how dumb all the adults were, and I did as I pleased… …while making sure nobody ever found out. Nobody who could lay any kind of consequences on me, anyway. Why are there laws about sex and minors? After all, who’s to say a fourteen-year-old isn’t equipped to make the right decisions? Who’s to say he’s not emotionally mature enough to manage it? Nobody, really. At least, not the folks who don’t KNOW him. But he’s not going INTO this alone. He’s presumably planning on having sex WITH someone, yes? And this doubles the chances of SOMEONE screwing it all up… and resulting in consequences of some kind. …and this is why we have the laws. Are they fair? No. Not really. Quite a few laws aren’t fair. To this day, I have yet to figure out how the government forcing me to pay taxes so THEY can give MY money to SOMEONE ELSE is fair. It ain’t. But then, that’s life. The best you can hope for is parity. And if you don’t like the damn laws, then grow the hell up, go into politics, and change them (or become insanely wealthy, buy some politicians, and have them change the laws FOR you.) At least this way, we have some sort of handle on the fourteen year olds who would merrily begin breeding, right there in someone else’s bed. Sure, the parents might well have handled this one themselves. As they are RESPONSIBLE for the children, one might consider that they have AUTHORITY over them, as well. But sometimes, that ain’t an option. At fourteen, I was still pretty nervous about my old man, because if it came down to it, I was fairly sure he could still f\*ck me up, if he really had to. And I was quite certain he’d throw me out on my ear if I really got seriously out of line. Did it stop me? No. But I was sure as hell a lot more careful about not getting caught, and about cleaning up my messes afterward, so to speak. And he did not take a swing at me, nor did he pitch me out. He paid for a good chunk of my college education, in fact, as well as for at least three major beer blasts and one lost weekend, but we won’t tell him about that, now, will we? …but in this day and age, not all parents have that kind of power or authority… or even INFLUENCE… over their kids. I have known entirely too many parents whose kids (or teachers) have dropped a word in Child Protective Services’ ears, and have suddenly found themselves being interrogated by well meaning but stern social workers. Kids WILL do that. Seen it lots of times. And it certainly does make one think twice or three times about using any kind of force on the little bastards, I’m told. And if one hesitates to use force… and your fourteen-year-old spits in your face and says, “I’ll do as I like, and you won’t stop me,” … well… what the hell ARE you supposed to do? …and that’s where it becomes a matter of law. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/33 "2003-08-22T05:32:06Z")
> [@](#): > > It ain’t. But then, that’s life. The best you can hope for is parity. And if you don’t like the damn laws, then grow the hell up, go into politics, and change them (or become insanely wealthy, buy some politicians, and have them change the laws FOR you.) Laws have no moral weight. Laws that hurt people require one heckuva justification to be moral. Statuatory laws do have the benefit of protecting kids from adult predators, but that’s about it. > [@](#): > > (5) “Sexual contact” means any of the following: > \_ > (a)\_ Intentional touching by the complainant or defendant, either directly or through clothing by the use of any body part or object, of the complainant’s or defendant’s intimate parts if that intentional touching is either for the purpose of sexually degrading or sexually humiliating the complainant or sexually arousing or gratifying the defendant. Well, bugger. That’s several thousand charges of sexual assualt against myself. Hmm. Lawyers, am I reading this wrong, or is masturbation forbidden by this law? Also, are children legally obliged to obey their parents? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/34 "2003-08-22T05:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > And if one hesitates to use force… and your fourteen-year-old spits in your face and says, “I’ll do as I like, and you won’t stop me,” … well… what the hell ARE you supposed to do? > > …and that’s where it becomes a matter of law. EXACTLY, and as usual HEAR HEAR to the rest of your post too (I’m pretty sure I was one of those girls you dated in your misspent youth :D). At any rate, to those having a hissy fit over these children being “charged as sex offenders” or registered as sex offenders. Come on folks, think about it. Their records will be expunged when they are 18. Though, if I were the parent, I think I’d like the option to take a less drastic route. But as **wang-ka** says, when they decide that you “can’t” stop them. What are your options? And FTR, I agreed in my previous posts, that the parents SHOULD have done something long before it got to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/35 "2003-08-22T05:35:45Z")
…are children legally obligated to obey their parents? Good question. I dunno. But if I am to be held responsible for the actions of my child (as I would, no doubt, if my theoretical son knocked up your imaginary daughter, and then decided he wanted nothing to do with your daughter or their child) … then I had damn well BETTER have SOME totally legal method of controlling my child’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/36 "2003-08-22T05:55:51Z")
I don’t now either, but I DO know that in many states, parent’s of minors ARE held legally responsible for their child’s actions. So, I second **wang-ka’s** post. I’d be interested in knowing how many of you that are utterly aghast at the “cruel” treatment and “stigma” these children are facing are parents of teens. I mean that in a curious “please tell me more” way. Not a snide one. I’d especially be interested in **Ryld up’s** thoughts as he is a teen, boy I suspect? And I’ve got one JUST about to be an official teen. Though I can’t imagine mine being interested in sex yet. He’s such a “parent’s boy” if that makes sense. Just loves us to death, even though we have been split up for years. His interests are mainly computer games and hunting/fishing/snowmaching with his dad, or playing wargames out in the woods with his friends. My daughter, who is grown, was SO different as a teen (duuuUUH), so I’d be interested in a young teen boy’s outlook. ---
**Author:** ![Orange\_Skinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3be4f8/32.png) [@Orange\_Skinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orange_Skinner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/37 "2003-08-22T06:40:16Z")
You’re right, **CanvasShoes** , about the record getting cleared. I’d forgotten about that. However, I still wouldn’t want my son/daughter at the focal point of this now-national known story, regardless, and I would not want to have to send them to school in the fall when everyone of their classmates knows what happened. Regarding whether or not I have any teenagers myself, no I don’t. Like **Ryld Up** , I still am one myself. I’m seventeen. To clarify, though, I wasn’t concerned only with the stigma the kids would face as a result of this case being made public. I’m also concerned with the siblings (if any) of these kids. And, If I were a parent, I don’t believe I would want that kind of coverage. Everone would assume you were a horrible parent, had no control, etc, etc…I have assumed this of the mother, as I’m sure many of the others in this thread have assumed, as well. What I’ve been trying to get at is this: In my opinion, it should come down to the parents. The courts should back whatever disciplinary actions said parents feel are necessary, to avoid such instances as **wang-ka-** mentioned. My problem is not that these kids are being punished for having sex at 14. More likely than not, they shouldn’t have been. But rather than see the court get involved in this case and cases like it, I’d rather the parents handle it in their own way, with the court backing them up. Only in extreme cases should the legal system have to decide on what should be done for the parents, and with the information we’ve been given, I’m not ready to say that this is one of those extreme cases. I think that last is the reason I have such a problem with the fact that this is going to trial: I’m not satisfied that it was necessary. If they are that out of control, and the parents have tried alternate methods of dealing with them in the past, then I support the choice to try them. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/38 "2003-08-22T09:33:41Z")
> [@](#): > > But if I am to be held responsible for the actions of my child (as I would, no doubt, if my theoretical son knocked up your imaginary daughter, and then decided he wanted nothing to do with your daughter or their child) Is this even true? If your son gets a girl pregnant, can you be held liable for child support? I don’t think it is true. > [@](#): > > And I am here to tell you, right goddamn now, WHY there are laws about this sort of thing on the books. They’re there to protect YOU from ME. This is not true either. These laws were clearly not written to protect 14 year olds from safe consensual sexual contact with other 14 year olds. This case would not even be news if that is what the law was for, because we would already have millions of kids in jail under the same law. > [@](#): > > EXACTLY, and as usual HEAR HEAR to the rest of your post too (I’m pretty sure I was one of those girls you dated in your misspent youth ). Here is a question for you and Wang-Ka: Do you think your lives would be better if your parents had had you arrested and convicted of sex crimes? Honestly? The main point is this: The parents in this case are abusing this law in a way that never should have been allowed. This abuse could have wide-reaching consequences for many other people. The law needs to be changed so such abuse is not possible. Another question: Do you honestly wish that you had not had sex until after college? Would it have been worth it to you to spend those years in prison for a sex crime so that you couldn’t have sex? Why shouldn’t you be sent to jail now for the “sex crimes” you just confessed to commiting? You want to stop your kid from having safe consensual sex with someone their own age? Fine. But you should not be able to have them convicted of a sex crime in order to do it. Are kids really so universally bad, and adults so universally good, that we can allow kids to be completely at the mercy of any adult who wants to have them arrested for sex crimes? No, this is just sick. I can see it now: an adult blackmailing a teenager who had consensual sex with someone their own age, threatening to have them convicted of a sex crime if they don’t do whatever the adult says. No, this cannot be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/39 "2003-08-22T10:00:30Z")
I don’t know if a parent can be held legally responsible for a teenaged “deadbeat dad,” but I do know that many parents are mighty concerned that their teenaged kids may breed, and yet be incapable of handling the responsibility. So what does the parent do if there is an unwanted pregnancy? Pressure the kid (if it’s their daughter) to have an abortion? That’s not right. Pressure their daughter or son to give the kid up for adoption? Sure, they can try, but I think _both_ of the baby’s parents have to consent to that. And I am pretty sure that if one parent nixes the adoption idea, both parents are on the hook for support. So, how is a 14-year-old going to support a baby, exactly? Go on welfare? Well, that certainly seems terribly “fair” to the rest of us taxpayers, huh? Will this 14-year-old parent live by themselves in some apartment, hold down a full time job and support their baby single-handedly? Do you see that happening often? So who often ends up looking after the 14-year-old _and_ the 14-year-old’s baby? You guessed it, the parents. I won’t say it happens each and every time, but we know it happens, and that it is not uncommon. So, I think that many parents have a really important reason to be concerned about their child’s sexual habits. I’m not advocating prison or convicting them of a “sex crime,” but I can really understand why some parents want to discourage their teenaged kids from having “consentual sex.” They are worried to death for their kids, and they don’t want their own lives disrupted in a really huge way. Because the risk is there—their teenager’s “consentual sex” becomes the parent’s “Oh boy, now I have to feed and take care of my 14-year-old’s baby, and I have to watch my 14-year-old lose part of his/her childhood because they are now a parent.” That possibility is _real_ to the parents, but often isn’t nearly as “real” to the kids who think that the grown-ups are real meanies for trying to hamper their love lives. And yeah, I know that it’s possible to teach them to be “safe,” but really, what are the odds that your average 14-year-old will _always_ be responsible and safe? Each and every time? ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722/40 "2003-08-22T10:49:34Z")
yosemitebabe - I agree that parents have good reason to try and stop their kids from having sex (especially if they are not practicing safe sex). However, that is not the point. The point is that these particular parents are abusing the law to have their 14 year old kids convicted of sex crimes for planning to have sex with each other. There are many strategies they could use, but this particular strategy is both extremely uncommon and extremely bad. Think about it: could not _anyone_ use this ruling to blackmail a teenager? Say an adult takes pictures of two teenagers of the same age having sex. Now he can threaten to turn them in for commiting a sex crime. You think this is a good thing? Are teenagers universally evil and adults universally good? I don’t think so. I don’t think adults, even parents, should have the power to have teenagers arrested and convicted of sex crimes at will. That would be extremely dangerous and wrong. No, there are many things the parents would be justified in doing, but arrest and conviction for a sex crime is decidedly not one of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unrepentant-pair-of-14-year-old-humpers-face-jail-fair-or-not/196722.md?page=3)