Couple questions
Do you believe it should be legal for teens to have sex?
Do you believe it should be illegal for teens to have sex?
2a. Do you believe teens should go to jail?
3a. If you believe it should be illegal what do you want the consequences to be?
To hell with the why’s for now, answer these questions please.
No, actually, I asked a question before you, so why don’t you answer my question first?
Well, should they?
Define adult.
If the person is within a couple years of age then yes I have no problems with it.
“Define adult?”
18 years old or older.
Would you object to a 14-year-old having sex with a 20-year-old? Why or why not? Would you object to a 14-year-old having sex with a 25-year-old? Why or why not? Would you object to a 14-year-old having sex with a 30-year-old? Why or why not?
If the 14-year-old is “mature” and is able to understand the consequences of sex and can be “responsible,” what does it matter how old their partner is?
Thanks for the link and quotes. Those are all excellent reasons for teens not to have children.
Come to think of it, yes, they should be allowed to have sex with a 30 year old, and they can, in missouri.
Ah, I see.
So, what about a 13-year-old, or a 12-year-old. I assume you’d consider it OK for them to have sex with a 30-year-old as well?
I think it’s a matter of whether punishment should be doled out or not, not a matter of “responsibility” on the part of the 14 year old(s).
Assuming that both of them are equally immature enough to truly appreciate the consequences of their actions, why should either of them be punished?
What I’m trying to say, yosemitebabe, is jail truly the answer here?
If we really have to prevent minors from having sex with each other, why not set up a “restraining” order system where we separate kids like that from each other… and it’s the parents responsibility to keep them apart?
The record can be expunged when they turn 18, so they aren’t sex offenders.
Depends on the situation
puberty ages differnece
she repeats jail isnt the answer.
but then how do you punish them? resraining order is rediclusah eh theri jsom’
Yosemitebabe, is it absolutely necessary for you to hijack every thread related to teens and sex, and turn in into a debate on teens having sex with adults?
This thread is about a specific case of two 14 year olds. It is not about a 14 year old and a 30 year old. It would be helpful if you would start your own threads for your own debates, rather then constantly hijacking threads and causing utter confusion.
Preview is your friend, my dear.
It’s just a simple question, among many questions asked here.
If you are contending (as many of you are) that teens are “mature” enough to have sex with each other, why are they not “mature” enough to also have sex with adults? “Mature” is “mature” is “mature,” right? Or are their different standards of “mature” going on here? I think it’s quite a relevant question, actually.
OK, I’ll try one more time.
Do you think that this conviction was really because of something other than sex? IF these teens are delinquents in other ways, then DEAL with those other ways. You don’t deal with a truant or a drug user by having them convicted of sex crimes! Yet people continue to say the sex crime convictions are a valid way to deal with non-sex-crime related problems.
Have you thought about the fact that this law makes teenagers easy targets for predators? Nobody has responded to the point that if this insane law was enforced regularly, anyone who took pictures of teenagers having safe, consensual sex with someone their own age could blackmail them and threaten to have them convicted of sex crimes. What a backwards world you are supporting. You would be putting kids into even more danger.
Do you think that it’s always fun to convict people of sex crimes as long as they get their records cleared eventually? Nobody has responded to the fact that records are becoming harder to expunge, or to the fact that teenagers are sometimes tried as adults, nor to the fact that these kids might want to get a job or apply to college before the records are erased - good luck.
Do you think this law actually helps keep down teen pregnancy? Nobody has provided any statistics showing that in states where safe, consensual sex between teenagers of the same age is legal, teen pregnancy has shot through the roof and taxes are off the scale. The reason, of course, is that there are no such statistics.
Yosemitebabe - As for the adults and teens issue - you just made me realize perhaps the most backwards and disgusting part of this law - it makes it so that a teenager who has sex with someone their own age gets convicted of a sex crime, but a teenager who has sex with an adult gets no punishment!
Wow. You know, yosemitebabe, you should just start up the “sexual predator’s support group” and have done with it. Because supporting sexual predators is exactly what you are doing.
You honestly think a law that makes it so teenagers get convicted of sex crimes for having consensual sex with someone their own age, but does not punish them for having sex with adults, is a good idea?
This law pushes any teenager who wants to have sex, but does not want to be convicted of sex crimes, into having sex with an adult.
I hope you enjoy all the thank you letters you get from pedophiles and sexual predators.
Is it fair? No. There are any number of perfectly mature fourteen-year-olds out there fully capable of having wonderful, fulfilling relationships with thirty-year-olds, and any number of adults who are fine, respectable people who would not so much predate upon their teenage lovers so much as love and cherish them.
…but y’know what? All those wonderful, honorable people get to goddamn wait until the younger of the two is eighteen. Deal with it.
The Age Of Consent. Yup. As far as I can tell, this legalism is largely completely arbitrary, based on whatever the legislators in a given area think. It’s the law. Deal with it, or pressure the legislators to change the law.
Should it be illegal for minors to have sex with each other? Ah, the $64,000 question. I’ll take HORNY for a thousand, Alex. NO, it should not be illegal for teeners to do what comes naturally to teeners. Not consensual sex, anyway. RAPE, now, that’s rape, I think, regardless of the ages of the participants. But consensual sex? No. Too damn many laws already.
So, there you have it. It should not be illegal. BUT…
There NEEDS to be some kind of mechanism here to permit parents to control their children. Said it before, say it again. When a teener is in a position to simply tell his parents to go take a flying leap… there needs to be a legal mechanism by which the parent or parents can yank a knot in the kid’s neck… or have him prosecuted.
At this point, in most places, there IS no such mechanism. I cannot have my minor child arrested for refusing to eat his frickin’ lima beans. And perhaps that’s a good thing.
So, these are our alternatives here:
(A) The parent should be able to absolve himself completely of any responsibility for anything the kid does, at will. Hey, this works. Go ahead, little junior, fuck all you want. The MINUTE something bad happens, I pitch you out of the house and refuse to take any responsibility! YOU pay the child support! YOU find a job! NYAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I’m not sure this is the best option for the child, though. Or the child’s child. Seems kind of draconian, no? Plus, it would also apply to such things as vandalism and accidents… and I have met parents who would throw their kid out of the house rather than cough up the $300 it would cost to repaint a wall what got graffitti’d. Ultimately, I don’t think this is a good solution.
(B) The parent should be able to bring down legal prosecution on his child for refusing to obey parental directives. Not sure I like this one, either. I mean, most of us agree that getting the law involved in family business is a bad idea… and what happens when we start having the cops regulate BEDTIME, for potato’s sake? Again, I’ve known parents who WOULD demand that the kid spend the night in jail for refusing to eat their damn lima beans.
The alternative is to create a ZILLION laws, here. “Bedtime cannot be regulated, nor can lima beans, but other things can. We will therefore create an entire code of Obedience Law, dictating what a parent can and cannot order his child to do under penalty of law.”
No. Screw this. This is idiotic, would create loopholes, would force all parents to either retain lawyers or BECOME lawyers, and would cost tax money. Let’s leave the laws where they are.
© Minors found to be having sex with minors can be charged with sex crimes. Is it right? Not really. Is it justice? Not really. IS IT THE BEST SOLUTION? Of the three here – the three I can think of – yes, it’s the best goddamn solution. Yes, it means that if your fourteen year old seduces my fourteen year old, BOTH can be charged with a crime… unless they’re careful and sneaky.
It also means that if your fourteen year old seduces ME, I can be charged with a crime, but your kid gets off scot free. That ain’t fair. But hopefully, my superior adult judgment will keep me from getting into that idiotic situation to begin with.
…and if anyone can come up with a better solution, please post it. I’d love to see it.
No, the conviction wasn’t because of something other than sex.But the arrest and prosecution probably were. The mother had choices- she could call the police or not, she could cooperate with the prosecution or not. Why did this make the papers? Probably becasue it’s so rare. And why is it so rare? My guess is because most of the parents who would be inclined to report such an incident to the police and cooperate with a prosecution back down as soon as they find out that their child will also be arested. And the child’s prior behavior may have ( and IMO, did) influence the mother’s choices. I don’t really know that I’d call that using a sex crime conviction to deal with non-sex crime related problems , though. Imagine a similar situation not dealing with a sex crime. I wake up one morning and don’t find my car. I know or suspect that my son took it without my permission. I can report it or not. If I report it, I can decide to cooperate with the prosecution or not. If I make my decision based on his prior behavior, am I really using a theft conviction to deal with non-theft related behavior? Or am I basing my decision about whether to save him from the legal consequences of his behavior on his past behavior?
Actually, the hijack was my fault. It stemmed from this cite:http://www.morningglorypress.com/pages/pptprgpv.html
My point in bringing the matter up was that, for all this righteous furor over “teen” pregnancy, we are forgetting that most of the fathers are adults.
A lot of folks here have been implying that one fourteen year old getting another fourteen year old pregnant is typical; that is simply not the case. Folks have also been saying that either her parents or AFDC will have to foot the bill. Again, if the (most likely) adult father takes responsibility, this does not have to be the case either.
Sorry, I forgot to respond to this point last night.
Any adult who possessed pictures of teenagers having sex would have to be insane to take said pictures to the police. That would get the adult charged with the more serious crime of using minors to make pornography. It’s not something that the adult could get a lighter sentence for by revealing the names of the teens, because the most serious offender (the adult) would already be in the hands of the police. Blackmail would be a useless threat and most teens would know that.
I do believe the conviction was because of something other than sex, however, an individual can only be charged with the offense they have committed. A more appropriate charge under the circumstances would be the ‘unruly child’ charge that many states have, but I don’t know if it’s in place in Wisconsin.
Is the law incapable of deciding whether a sexual relationship is a predacious one without using age? What wouild be so horrible with making statuatory rape unwanted sexual activites with minors, instead of any?
[Simpsons]Won’t somebody please think of the horny teenagers?[/Simpsons]
Wow. This is just what I am worried about. poor Wang-Ka getting seduced by fourteen year olds. I mean, here you are supporting a law which punishes teenagers if they have sex with someone their own age, but not if they have sex with adults.
I can see how you would be scared of all the fourteen year old girls who will try to seduce you.
You have reason to be scared - most teen pregnancies are a result of an adult father.
In other words, this law pushes teenagers into exactly the situation most likely to result in pregnancy. And that is what we wanted right? I’m getting confused…
Well, I can say that, Wang-Ka, I support you in your valiant efforts not to have sex with underage girls. I can understand that the fact that you want it so they are legally forced to have sex with adults if they want to avoid sex crime charges makes you much more attractive to them. Just try not to impregnate too many of them? Otherwise someone might call you on your hypocrisy.