# Unsolicited criticism from the clueless **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528 "2003-02-21T12:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/21 "2003-02-22T19:23:57Z")
WOW!!! That’s GOOD!!! I’m impressed. We used tortillions back in high school. Usually AFTER using the side of the pencil stub to add shading and then “smudging” it just a bit so it would look BLENDED. Not shaded. I was told they were used for blending. Of course, I do mostly cartoon dolls nowadays, and I’m addicted to the Retouch on PSP7. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![susan\_foster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@susan\_foster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan_foster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/22 "2003-02-22T22:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grey\_ideas \* > \*\*yosemitebabe, allow me to second AudreyK, that really is a VERY fine drawing! \*\* I agree - and when can I meet the model - oh my! Susan ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/23 "2003-02-22T22:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*Well, actually, Eats\_Crayons, I should add a little to your smudged graphite description—some newbies _try_ to create a “smooth” rendered look by using tortillions. But they don’t quite get it > > \ > > There is at least one artist I can think of who smudges graphite with tortillions, but he knows what he is doing and his work is sharp and clear and quite beautiful. \*\* The good one’s I’ve seen were actually done in conté (a portrait colour set). Oh, wow! Usually that turns to mud, but these were great. I was shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/24 "2003-02-22T22:38:15Z")
BTW- If you wanna see a shocking difference in style [click here](http://webhome.idirect.com/~clzoll/pics.html). I use crosshatching aggressively, but over the last couple of years I’ve been trying to do it very, very loosely – it’s more “cross-scribbling” than “cross-hatching.” Note: If you look really closely, you may see a grid on the second drawing – I was preparing to enlarge it greatly to a different medium. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/25 "2003-02-22T23:10:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by susan\_foster \* > \*\*I agree - and when can I meet the model - oh my! > > Susan \*\* Given the appearance and the name of the image, I do believe that the model was [Ben Browder](http://us.imdb.com/Name?Browder,+Ben), who plays John Crichton on the soon-to-be-terminated [Farscape](http://www.farscape.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/26 "2003-02-22T23:13:41Z")
yosemitebabe: > [@](#): > > And I’d have to look up some bad examples on the web (some poor sod’s work, perhaps) and I just don’t want to do that. I was taught this technique back in my beginning drawing class. I only used it for one drawing, but if anyone wants to see an example [here](http://www.geocities.com/visual_silence/mldrawing.html) it is. Beware, this drawing was done entirely by smudging graphite with a tortillion. Note: I never used this technique since that class. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/27 "2003-02-23T00:17:09Z")
**Night** that’s not what I would call a “bad” example at all! It looks as if you sahded with the graphite and then smoothed it out. You have sharp contrasts, the bad ones No, the bad ones don’t have any shading at all, just muddy lines… :rolleyes: I tried to Google “amateur drawing pencil” and got a site that just redirected me to porn. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/28 "2003-02-23T00:25:49Z")
Ah, [here we go](http://www.visualmanna.com/freedraw.html). Compare, the tonal ranges in the original photo of the deer with the smudged drawing. The photo has sharp diferences between he blacks and whites and you can see the texture of the pelt. The smudged drawing is just, well, smudged and blotchy. If you scroll dow to the bottom of the page, you see a drawing of a squirrel that is not smudged – crisp, and clear. Much better! ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/29 "2003-02-23T01:20:06Z")
Drawing photos via a grid. ::shudder:: How to Become a Human Copy Machine. I’ve rarely seen a smudged picture that is an improvement over the original. They seem to lose a lot of life in the process, yet they gain an artificial prettiness and slickness that makes them beloved (and thus overused) by mediocre artists. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/30 "2003-02-23T01:47:27Z")
Ya know, I have to say - I have studied drawing for years. I went to art college. I took drawing courses at University. And yet, I am compelled to ask: What the hell is a “tortillion”? I’ve never heard of it. I’m sure I’ve never used one. I do really tonal drawings using vine charcoal mostly, and I’ve never had to smudge it with anything - you just push it around a bit and it smudges just fine. Anyone? Anyone? Buler? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/31 "2003-02-23T02:38:34Z")
[Here](http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?classID=1517&subclassID=151712&brandname=Loew%2DCornell&Item=41097) is a tortillion. I never knew that name either, I just figured it out from context in this thread; I always called it a “smudge stick”. They’re soft felty paper wrapped into a tube and then formed into a sort of pencil shape. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/32 "2003-02-23T02:40:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\* > What the hell is a “tortillion”?_\* “[A tortillion](http://share3.esd105.wednet.edu/sotelops/tortillion.htm) is nothing more than a piece of rolled paper used as a blending tool.” And yeah, that Crichton drawing… mmmm yummy! ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/33 "2003-02-23T11:37:47Z")
Wow, it’s so nice to encounter a lot of kindred spirits here (on the smudged graphite issue, anyway…). And thanks so much for the kind words on the Chricton portrait. I did enjoy doing that. I’m still half done with a companion portrait of Eryn (sp?) though. Eats\_Crayons, thanks for the link showing the difference between smudged graphite and non-smudged. Perfect example. And I really like your pencil portrait! Just the thing! I like seeing the pencil strokes (even if they are really fine and detailed) in a pencil drawing and you did a masterful job. Charcoal or conte crayon, that’s a different matter. I think it can be great blended. But, there are some artists who can pull off blending graphite, I’ll admit. Nighttime—NO, your lovely Mona Lisa drawing was not an example of the dreaded smearing technique! As Eats\_Crayons already mentioned, you have some contrast and sharpness to your drawing. I think it’s quite wonderful. Gaudere—yes, the grid is SO overused. I think it’s fine for some things (blowing up a small image to put on a large canvas or mural, for instance), and it can be a great learning tool. But this Kinkaide-esque graphite smearing hack shows it as THE only way to draw and I think she’s doing a great disservice to her students and “followers”. I’ve seen some depressing smudged graphite portraits on the web. One way to find them is to look up “celebrity pencil portraits” on Google. Some are nice, but some…yikes! Since we’re all having this pencil drawing love-fest I thought I’d show off my favored pencil cross-hatching technique in a little more detail: Here’s a face that I [made up from my imagination](http://home.earthlink.net/~yosemitebabe/pretty-black-woman.jpg) (but people still ask me who she is!). And [this](http://home.earthlink.net/~yosemitebabe/bill-pencil.jpg) is a sketch of one of my friends, drawn from life. (He looks grumpy there, but he wasn’t, really. He was just watching TV.) I think one of the great things about letting the pencil lines show is that you can do “contour” lines, or lines that follow the shape of the form you are drawing. I think they can really give an extra depth to the drawing. But, it’s just one way to draw, that’s for sure. There are many wonderful styles. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/34 "2003-02-23T11:48:52Z")
I should clarify, if you look for “celebrity pencil portraits” in Google, don’t search for the exact quote, just use the keywords with no quote marks around them. You’ll find some interesting results. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/35 "2003-02-23T12:23:31Z")
**yosemitebabe** , I think I like the portrait of your friend best. When I look at it, I feel like I’m looking at a real person which is always the ultimate quality you should be looking for in a portrait, IMHO. Even though I use grids a lot for my own work it’s only because part of the process involves blowing up details and great precision is absolutely necessary to obtain the desired effect. I can’t even possibly imagine teaching a class of beginners to use grids! Learning how to draw is first and foremost learning how to look I think… actually, no, I strongly believe! ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/36 "2003-02-23T12:32:27Z")
jovan, yes, I agree on all counts. Drawing from life is always the best. I like my other drawings too, but there’s a special “life” to, well, drawings (and paintings) from life. I need to do more of them. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/37 "2003-02-23T12:58:56Z")
[hijack\* How would one go about getting a link to the art tuturial site off’ve you? You’re a very good artist (judging by the site you do link to) and I’m not so I could always to with a new art site to browse… ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/38 "2003-02-23T13:14:24Z")
Silentgoldfish, (and anyone else who is interested) I’ll email you the URL, no problem! I try to stay semi-anonymous on these boards (no one is completely anonymous, I guess, but I’m trying) so I don’t want to link directly to my site. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/39 "2003-02-23T13:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*Silentgoldfish, (and anyone else who is interested) I’ll email you the URL, no problem! I try to stay semi-anonymous on these boards (no one is completely anonymous, I guess, but I’m trying) so I don’t want to link directly to my site. \*\* That’s be great! E-mail’s in profile. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528/40 "2003-02-23T13:53:55Z")
God you’re talented, **y-babe**!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsolicited-criticism-from-the-clueless/156528.md?page=3)