# Unsympathetic Protagonists (open spoilers for various topics) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681 "2011-03-23T02:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/41 "2011-03-23T17:38:16Z")
Mark Zuckerberg - at least how he was portrayed in [The Social Network](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285016/). ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/42 "2011-03-23T17:39:16Z")
Mattie from True Grit. She was annoying, bossy, and screwed over a small business owner in the first scene. Didn’t care for her at all. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/43 "2011-03-23T17:45:27Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I think Thomas Covenant is pretty high up there for a lot of people. I’ve only ever read the first couple of books in that series, but he gets brought up a LOT when there’s a discussion of an unsympathetic protagonist. He was my first thought. I loved the books when I read them in high school. 20 years later, I decided to re-read them, and I couldn’t even get through the first book, almost entirely because I couldn’t stand Covenant. > [@Krokodil](#): > > Actually, I forget why I’m rooting for Don Draper in Mad Men… I tried, very hard, to watch Mad Men (it’s about the industry in which I work, after all). I just couldn’t get past the fact that I hated every single character. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/44 "2011-03-23T17:46:31Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Mostly true. But in _Flashman and the Redskins_, he > > betrays someone’s trust by _selling her into slavery in order to make a few quick bucks_. > > I have a feeling someone had pointed out to Fraser that for all Flashman constantly referred to himself as a cad, he’d never really done anything very bad “on screen”. That’s not true, though. In the very first Flashman book: He unrepentantly rapes one woman (though he adds that he doesn’t much enjoy rape - too much trouble), and beats another for denying him sex ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/45 "2011-03-23T18:02:54Z")
No sympathy whatever for Benjamin Braddock (“The Graduate”); all of my sympathies are with Mrs. Robinson, ultimately the real victim in the story. . ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/46 "2011-03-23T18:03:15Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m currently watching all of “The Sopranos” > I’m up to series 5 and, though I don’t know how it all ends (don’t spoil it for me) I suspect (and hope) it is a bloodbath. No one actually deserves to live. > I am really pushed to think of a single likeable character in it. > > I am enjoying it though. I enjoyed it too but weirdly I found myself really loving all the characters. I’d see them do all these terrible things and then sort of mentally justify it to myself. Well, maybe not Ralphie… ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/47 "2011-03-23T18:10:12Z")
Walt from Breaking Bad. I could understand his motivations early on, and the internal conflict he experiences is always interesting, but he’s very often a terrible, terrible person. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/48 "2011-03-23T18:19:59Z")
I just finished reading a YA novel called The Marbury Lens, and I think you’re supposed to like the main character, a teenage boy. He was abandoned by his biological mom, and raised by her parents, who obviously care about him and spare no expense to give him a nice life. He says at one point in the book that he has no more feelings for them than if they were pieces of furniture. Well, fuck you too, Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Sakuma\_Drops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sakuma\_Drops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sakuma_Drops)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/49 "2011-03-23T18:22:02Z")
I think **Barry Lyndon** fits the bill - a philandering, hot-headed asshole who fancies himself far too much. He’s also the textbook unreliable narrator. ---
**Author:** ![FrigidLizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@FrigidLizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrigidLizard)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/50 "2011-03-23T18:32:58Z")
I’ve got to disagree with **Silent Kal** about Vic Mackey. While he is undeniably an evil man, his motivations are good. There is a flashback episode that shows his original team succumbing for the first time to the temptation to break the rules, vowing they will only do it “just this once.” I find him very sympathetic as a man who wanted to serve justice, care for his family, and make the streets safe for innocents, and ended up paving his own way straight to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/51 "2011-03-23T18:41:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That’s not true, though. In the very first Flashman book: > > He unrepentantly rapes one woman (though he adds that he doesn’t much enjoy rape - too much trouble), and beats another for denying him sex Flashman is much worse in the first book than in subsequent ones. I think Fraser began to like the character and toned him down later on. As you indicate, his behavior in the first book is quite abominable. In the later ones he’s mainly just exploitative and cowardly, rather than gratuitously sadistic (though there are some exceptions). Same thing happened with Al Swearengen in **Deadwood**. He had virtually no redeeming characteristics in the first season; later he became more a Machiavellian politician than a monster. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/52 "2011-03-23T18:44:56Z")
Everybody onscreen on **Seinfeld**. I realize the concept of the show requires annoying people to say and do annoying yet funny things, but for me the annoying overwhelms the funny. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/53 "2011-03-23T18:53:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Flashman is much worse in the first book than in subsequent ones. I think Fraser began to like the character and toned him down later on. As you indicate, his behavior in the first book is quite abominable. In the later ones he’s mainly just exploitative and cowardly, rather than gratuitously sadistic (though there are some exceptions). > > Same thing happened with Al Swearengen in **Deadwood**. He had virtually no redeeming characteristics in the first season; later he became more a Machiavellian politician than a monster. Heh, in the second book: [spoiler]He tortures an opponent, then swears to “let him go” if he tells him the info he needs - and he does - over a cliff! 😃 Mind you he had it comming. [/spoiler] Though in general, I’d agree - he’s not as horrible in later books. Excluding that incident in _Redskins_ already mentioned … ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/54 "2011-03-23T18:56:57Z")
My own example is _The First Law_ trilogy, and to an even greater extent, _Best Served Cold_, both by Joe Abercrombie. In the latter book, _literally every major character_ is horrible, to the point of being unredeemable monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/55 "2011-03-23T19:05:15Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Everybody onscreen on **Seinfeld**. What I love about this criticism is that the characters on Seinfeld are almost always in the right. Yet, they’re labeled as monsters in almost everything they do. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/56 "2011-03-23T19:33:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > What I love about this criticism is that the characters on Seinfeld are almost always in the right. Yet, they’re labeled as monsters in almost everything they do. I would not call them monsters. Just annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/57 "2011-03-23T21:18:24Z")
Though he didn’t start out that way **Richard Rahl** of the \*\*Sword of Truth \*\*had me totally disgusted by who he was by the end of the series. He was a murdering totalitarian psychopath who would have been the villain of any other series. It was only the fact that the actual villain of the series was a cartoonishly evil monster that Richard was in way shape or form the hero. Nothing like reading 4 pages of Richard talking about how everyone has to come to their own conclusions and think for themselves but if you come to any other conclusion then his you’ll have to be murdered on the spot because you’re clearly an irrational person that hates life, love and hope. The weirdest thing was is that in the hands of a skilled writer Richard could have been an interesting morality tale about how if you fight evil you can become as monstrous as what you fight, but no all of this crap is played totally straight. Edit: oh and his wife is actually worse than him. Just to give you an idea she threatens her half sister with gang rape because she wanted to withdraw from the alliance she never agreed to and become neutral. She also approved of the straight up murder of her half brother who had come as a peaceful envoy to pass along this news. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/58 "2011-03-23T21:29:49Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Edit: oh and his wife is actually worse than him. Just to give you an idea she threatens her half sister with gang rape because she wanted to withdraw from the alliance she never agreed to and become neutral. She also approved of the straight up murder of her half brother who had come as a peaceful envoy to pass along this news. I tried to edit this in but missed the window. I repeat again in case you don’t believe me that this is played straight. This isn’t Tomas Covenant who we’re supposed to hate or is supposed to be a jerk like Flashman. These are the heroes that the author clearly thinks are wonderful people we should look up to and believe in. It’s absolutely surreal to read pages of Richard cutting down unarmed peace protesters and feeling GOOD about himself for removing a ‘threat’ to the world. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/59 "2011-03-23T22:14:22Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > What I love about this criticism is that the characters on Seinfeld are almost always in the right. Yet, they’re labeled as monsters in almost everything they do. I think this is more true in Curb Your Enthusiasm. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/60 "2011-03-23T23:07:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m currently watching all of “The Sopranos” > I’m up to series 5 and, though I don’t know how it all ends (don’t spoil it for me) I suspect (and hope) it is a bloodbath. No one actually deserves to live. > I am really pushed to think of a single likeable character in it. > > I am enjoying it though. And let’s add **Six Feet Under**. I stopped watching it after the first season because the characters were pretty much all assholes, but I decided to give it another shot this year because one of my current favorite actors played Gabe in the first two seasons, and I’d all but forgotten he was on the show. In viewing attempt #2 I made it as far as when Gabe disappears because the rest of them are _still_ a bunch of assholes, and I didn’t care what happened to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681.md?page=4)