# Unsympathetic Protagonists (open spoilers for various topics) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681 "2011-03-23T02:57:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/61 "2011-03-24T01:37:29Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > What I love about this criticism is that the characters on Seinfeld are almost always in the right. Yet, they’re labeled as monsters in almost everything they do. What about when Kramer took the handicapped parking spot? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/62 "2011-03-24T01:58:22Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > What about when Kramer took the handicapped parking spot? I said almost always. That’s one of the evil things. But look at George and the poison envelopes. The Rosses go so far as to call him a murderer (twice!) even though George bought the envelopes from a fairly high end stationary store. They sold a product that when used as expected caused the death of a person. How does George then become the bad guy? Because he didn’t want to spend a lot of money on wedding invitations? Or Jerry giving Mr. Pitt the antishitamine. Mr. Pitt approached a random stranger in a pharmacy without checking if they worked there. Or the finale. They videotaped the face of a criminal stealing a car at gunpoint. They deserve a commendation, not an arrest. The prosecutors should be thanking them. Or Babu’s visa renewal application. Jerry was only gone a few weeks. In all that time, even though Babu thought it was weird he hadn’t gotten the renewal yet, he never called up INS and said “Send me another one, I didn’t get it yet.” What if the mailman had legitemately lost it? Would Jerry still have been evil because he didn’t remind Babu about the application? ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/63 "2011-03-24T02:14:43Z")
Jerry had the right to steal that bread from the old lady, because she refused his reasonable offers and he really needed that bread ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/64 "2011-03-24T02:20:15Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Jerry had the right to steal that bread from the old lady, because she refused his reasonable offers and he really needed that bread Maybe you’re mocking my point, but I agree with you. He offered her $50 for a $2 loaf of bread. Not giving it to him and then shoving him was pretty ridiculous. I would have stolen the bread too. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/65 "2011-03-24T02:30:47Z")
True, I guess there wasn’t anything that bad with those things. Babu in particular, I think Jerry got a really bad rap about. If anyone should be blamed, it’s the mailman. (Newman!!!) In a lot of situations, particularly dating ones, they tended to be callous. Though I guess not evil. Like Jerry and “man-hands.” It wasn’t like he did anything wrong (well, OK, going through her bag was) but the way they referred to the people they dated was pretty flip/uncaring. It was less about a specific action and more an attitude. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/66 "2011-03-24T03:41:50Z")
> [@dawson](#): > > Miles in the movie Sideways. The guy steals from his mother. And is so self righteous about “not drinking fucking Merlot” yet his favourite wine, his most prized possesion, a bottle of 1961 Cheval Blanc, is made in large part with merlot. So even his pretention is incorrect! > Just nothing redeeming about this character. +1 And you left out drinking out of the spit bucket. Of course, his buddy Jack is no prize, either. I winced when Stephanie (Sandra Oh) put the beatdown on him with her helmet, but I didn’t feel sorry for him. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/67 "2011-03-24T03:58:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Flashman is much worse in the first book than in subsequent ones. I think Fraser began to like the character and toned him down later on. As you indicate, his behavior in the first book is quite abominable. In the later ones he’s mainly just exploitative and cowardly, rather than gratuitously sadistic (though there are some exceptions). I think this is right - and personally, I think Fraser toned Flashman down a bit too far. In “Flashman and the Great Game,” for example, there’s a bit where Flash actually shows mercy when he has absolutely nothing to gain by it, and he knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/68 "2011-03-24T04:12:07Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > +1 And you left out drinking out of the spit bucket. Oh yeah. I have a low gross out threshold so for me doing something like that disgusts me even more than (the really disgusting act of) stealing from his mother. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/69 "2011-03-24T04:34:53Z")
In Mad Men Don Draper has become such a unrepentant womanizer over time I have little sympathy left for him even if others are going him wrong. He even tried to bone his fake dead wife’s young niece when he came to close out the estate. Ditto for his uber childish ex-wife Peggy, she makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up every time she’s on screen. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/70 "2011-03-24T04:35:57Z")
Do you mean Betty? Peggy was his secretary. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/71 "2011-03-24T05:04:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Do you mean Betty? Peggy was his secretary. Sorry Betty not Peggy. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/72 "2011-03-24T10:05:30Z")
**James Bond** comes across in the books as a bit of a prick. A cold, hard womanising killer with few redeeming features. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/73 "2011-03-24T12:59:55Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > **James Bond** comes across in the books as a bit of a prick. > > A cold, hard womanising killer with few redeeming features. Obligatory [Mitchell and Webb](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfSQW499Xc) link ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/74 "2011-03-24T13:02:50Z")
As Spillane wrote him, Mike Hammer is a real jack-ass. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/75 "2011-03-24T13:52:06Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Ray Romano in **Everybody Loves Raymond**. Nearly as bad as Jim. Actually, the entire cast. ---
**Author:** ![breezilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@breezilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breezilla)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/76 "2011-03-24T14:03:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Do games count? Squall Leonhart of Final Fantasy VIII always made me want to slap him. If they do, I’m nominating Hugo from _Suikoden III_. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/77 "2011-03-24T15:12:44Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Not just that. If he just wanted to die, he could have shot himself. Instead, he gives away the rest of the college money his parents gave him, and disappears. He goes for months at a time without contacting his family (even dropping a postcard saying “I’m alive” would have went a long way in my book), leaving them to wonder if he was dead. > > There’s a certain amount of sadism in voluntarily forcing your family to agonize as to whether you’re still alive. > > Good call. For that matter, Jack really had no redeeming qualities. The entire trip is supposed to be his bachelor party, and he spends the majority of his time in the film sleeping with a very ugly Asian chick[sup]\*[/sup] > > How could I have forgotten Heath Ledger’s portrayal of the Joker in _The Dark Knight_??:smack: > \*This is no way is meant as a racial comment. I’m not disparaging Asians in general. I just think that Sandra Oh is not attractive at all. And she can’t act. Her eyes are too close together, and he face is too long. She reminds me of a crosseyed horse. Regarding the lovely and talented Ms. Oh: Go watch “Last Night.” I think it’s on Netflix Watch Now. Wonderful, thoughtful end-of-the-world movie, and Oh is excellent in it. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/78 "2011-03-24T15:18:13Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Mark Zuckerberg - at least how he was portrayed in [The Social Network](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1285016/). That’s the one I came in here to say. In fact pretty everyone in the Social Network, with the possible exception of Eduardo Saverin (and that’s mainly because the movie is based largely on his telling of events; still, even he doesn’t come out looking too good). ---
**Author:** ![RomeoAndRosaline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e36b37/32.png) [@RomeoAndRosaline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RomeoAndRosaline)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/79 "2011-03-24T15:32:43Z")
When I was watching Lost I always thought it was hilarious that everyone who loved the show hated almost every character on it. Most people had one or two they liked and wanted the rest to die, while some just wanted it to end with everyone dead. Some fans definitely break the trend but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a show where so many people liked it overall but really disliked so many characters (I know I was definitely was rooting for half of them to eat it by the end of the show). Breaking Bad is becoming a good example, which is awesome and promises to get even more awesome. I always found this in Great Expectations. Pip is a little twit who brings all his own problems on himself and then whines about them, plus he’s an asshole to the only decent human beings in the book (minus the gentleman with the castle and the Aged P whose name I can’t recall). Pretty much everyone in Watchmen to some degree or other. Several of the protagonists out of Shakespeare are clearly intended to fall into this category. ---
**Author:** ![Sakuma\_Drops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sakuma\_Drops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sakuma_Drops)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681/80 "2011-03-24T15:37:48Z")
> [@breezilla](#): > > If they do, I’m nominating Hugo from _Suikoden III_. Ehh, I’ll excuse most of what Hugo did because he’s a teenager who was thrown into some pretty bad situations. He wants to be a warrior but he really doesn’t understand war, yet war came to him anyway. Plus, his best friend was killed right in front of him. I’d probably be a little irrational and hot-headed myself if that happened to me. I know it’s not technically canon, but the Suikoden III manga is very well-written and the characterizations are a lot more fleshed-out than in the game. Chris was the protagonist who left me cold in the game, but in the manga she gets some pretty good backstory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unsympathetic-protagonists-open-spoilers-for-various-topics/575681.md?page=5)