# Unthinkable: Argentina fail to Qualify for Russia 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 6, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125 "2017-10-06T18:08:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/21 "2017-10-09T21:50:40Z")
Congratulations to Iceland. They are perhaps the greatest David and Goliath story ever. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/22 "2017-10-10T17:46:01Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Messi will get noticed just by the nature of his play but is he always a net benefit to the Argentinian team?. During qualifying: 7 points in 8 games without him. 18 points in 9 games with him. Only loss with Messi on the team was away to Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/23 "2017-10-10T17:50:16Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Interestingly, if I am doing the math right, Argentina cannot even guarantee their ticket with a win. If Chile beat Brazil, and Uruguay beat Bolivia, and Columbia beat Peru, then an Argentine win only puts the fifth, and into a playoff with New Zealand. I can almost see the Seleção intentionally losing to Chile, just to help knock Argentina out. 😃 That’s correct. Argentina would probably be heavily favored against New Zealand, though. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/24 "2017-10-10T19:43:57Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Playing for Barca. He is shit for Argentina. If he were the best in the world, he should show it on the international stage. Messi has a higher goals+assists/game for Argentina than Ronaldo does for Portugal. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/25 "2017-10-10T19:58:08Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Messi has a higher goals+assists/game for Argentina than Ronaldo does for Portugal. Messi is surrounded by players playing in the Champions League for the Argies; CR7 isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/26 "2017-10-10T20:03:20Z")
Didn’t Messi vow to never play international again after the WC loss? Because it broke his heart too much? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/27 "2017-10-10T20:36:41Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Messi is surrounded by players playing in the Champions League for the Argies; CR7 isn’t. In the most recent camp, Portugal actually had more players on CL rosters than Argentina did (12 vs 10). Admittedly, those numbers are inflated by Sporting, Benfica, and Porto. However, they have 6 vs 9 on traditional CL powerhouses (would be 7, but Pepe just moved). The idea that Ronaldo is surrounded by a bunch of scrubs is ridiculous. So is the idea that Argentina is so wonderful that Messi doesn’t add anything. Argentina’s squad is so great they average less than a point a game in qualifying without Messi. 2 points a game with him. Messi’s goals, on average, are also against much better teams than Ronaldo’s scored them. The idea that Ronaldo dominates international football and Messi is “shit” is highly biased and contrary to the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/28 "2017-10-11T00:58:17Z")
Messi telling Ecuador to go home and get its shine box. Baring something real crazy, Argentina is going to qualify directly. The US on the other hand… I hope Mexico keeps in mind that they owe us. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/29 "2017-10-11T01:03:23Z")
Messi singlehandedly taking Argentina to Russia right now. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/30 "2017-10-11T01:04:49Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Didn’t Messi vow to never play international again after the WC loss? Because it broke his heart too much? No, that was after last year’s Copa America. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/31 "2017-10-11T01:54:35Z")
USA out. What a disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/32 "2017-10-11T01:56:22Z")
Well, we’ve always got the women’s team. I’m thinking they could beat the men after tonight’s disgraceful display. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/33 "2017-10-11T02:11:49Z")
Everybody’s going nuts in the streets here in Panama after their defeat of Costa Rica put them in. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/34 "2017-10-11T02:32:33Z")
Poor Pulisic. Probably the best player the US ever had, already. Carried the team by himself to need a draw against the worst team in the group, and then that. I’m not sure if it’s a consolation that Panama’s first goal never happened and that they should have been eliminated and the US against Australia in a playoff. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/35 "2017-10-11T02:34:43Z")
Not really, as there is no excuse for an own goal. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/36 "2017-10-11T02:45:27Z")
I am partly glad we didn’t qualify. Maybe it will finally force USSF to take a long, hard look at the whole setup of soccer in the US. We’ve been skating for far too long on the assumption that we can always qualify b/c CONCACAF. Losing to T&T is a disgrace. I made the comment elsewhere that it’s roughly the equivalent of England losing to Andorra. After so many years where we’ve been able to qualify for the finals, it’s time to stop expecting real soccer to arrive someday down the road, and demand that it exist here now. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/37 "2017-10-11T11:27:15Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I am partly glad we didn’t qualify. Maybe it will finally force USSF to take a long, hard look at the whole setup of soccer in the US. We’ve been skating for far too long on the assumption that we can always qualify b/c CONCACAF. > > Losing to T&T is a disgrace. I made the comment elsewhere that it’s roughly the equivalent of England losing to Andorra. After so many years where we’ve been able to qualify for the finals, it’s time to stop expecting real soccer to arrive someday down the road, and demand that it exist here now. It’s not quite that bad. Andorra is like 190 ELO, and T&T 96. Armenia is a closer UEFA equivalent. Hard to say what happened with the US. There’s a big age gap with the national team where there are basically no players in the pool from ages 20-26, Yedlin being an exception. Does that coincide with shutting down the Bradenton academy? Are the MLS academies going to produce? Dallas has produced a couple, including a 19 year old that’s starting for Shalke, but not enough to prevent this wreck. Maybe USSF can pressure MLS to introduce rules that incentivize their academies. I think home grown players already don’t count against the salary cap though. ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/38 "2017-10-11T13:46:11Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Not really, as there is no excuse for an own goal. Absent the keeper calling you off, a defender’s job on a cross/shot is to get to every ball they can, the best they can. You can’t pull off a ball because you are afraid you might deflect it in and just give the other player a free shot on goal. Almost every back-line defender (especially the center backs) eventually deflects/puts one in–it comes with the territory. I will agree that there is no excuse for **some** own goals (for example, Women’s World Cup England v Japan). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/39 "2017-10-11T15:15:59Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Maybe USSF can pressure MLS to introduce rules that incentivize their academies. I think home grown players already don’t count against the salary cap though. MLS already incentives academies - home grown are part of it, there are also some financial benefits when selling academy players. Every MLS team (bar Minnesota which just came into the league) has a fully functioning academy - and Minnesota is building one. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/40 "2017-10-11T16:11:21Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > MLS already incentives academies - home grown are part of it, there are also some financial benefits when selling academy players. Every MLS team (bar Minnesota which just came into the league) has a fully functioning academy - and Minnesota is building one. Some incentive doesn’t necessarily mean enough incentive. It may be that continuing on as is will be enough, and the academies will eventually pump out a Pulisic a year, but they should always be asking the question if there’s more that can be done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125.md?page=3)