# Unthinkable: Argentina fail to Qualify for Russia 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 6, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125 "2017-10-06T18:08:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/41 "2017-10-11T16:13:02Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Not really, as there is no excuse for an own goal. I’m not sure what the OG has to do with Panama incorrectly being awarded a goal? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/42 "2017-10-11T16:17:20Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m not sure what the OG has to do with Panama incorrectly being awarded a goal? My point was that you shouldn’t be counting on an overturn in another game when you can’t even execute in your own game. The US controlled its own destiny and completely blew it to the point of an own goal being the difference between tying and losing. The USMNT does not deserve to go in and they definitely don’t deserve it on review after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/43 "2017-10-11T17:32:54Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > My point was that you shouldn’t be counting on an overturn in another game when you can’t even execute in your own game. The US controlled its own destiny and completely blew it to the point of an own goal being the difference between tying and losing. The USMNT does not deserve to go in and they definitely don’t deserve it on review after the fact. I’m never very sympathetic when people complain about a bad call or bad decision being responsible for their team’s failure. If a bad call can make the difference, it was a pretty close thing to begin with. If you have a better team, you should win decisively enough so a bad call can’t be the determining factor. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/44 "2017-10-11T17:41:09Z")
The call wasn’t just bad it was horrifically bad. Like the ref was on the take sort of bad. ---
**Author:** ![Rudiger\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rudiger\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rudiger_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/45 "2017-10-11T18:01:06Z")
> [@jkirkman](#): > > Absent the keeper calling you off, a defender’s job on a cross/shot is to get to every ball they can, the best they can. You can’t pull off a ball because you are afraid you might deflect it in and just give the other player a free shot on goal. > > Almost every back-line defender (especially the center backs) eventually deflects/puts one in–it comes with the territory. > > I will agree that there is no excuse for **some** own goals (for example, Women’s World Cup England v Japan). I’d say that there’s no excuse for _that_ own goal. Why Gonzales was on the field over someone like Cameron, I’ll never know. He whiffed on a crucial tackle against Honduras, is slow to get back after set pieces, and shanked a routine cross into his own goal. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/46 "2017-10-11T18:08:12Z")
To be fair, Cameron’s last start was a nightmare. However, it was his only really poor game that I can remember. Gonzalez is bad at least half the time. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Messi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Leo\_Messi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Messi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/47 "2017-10-11T18:49:42Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I predict they don’t qualify and this is also an indictment of Mess I as a world class player. CR7, from the smaller and weaker Portugal, has been much more impactfil. > [@madsircool](#): > > Messi needs Barca to be anything other than an excellent player. > [@madsircool](#): > > Playing for Barca. He is shit for Argentina. If he were the best in the world, he should show it on the international stage. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Exactly this. > > Barcelona allows Messi to shine, Ronaldo allows Real to shine. That is the crucial difference. Messi cannot make Argentina into world-beaters like Maradona did and as Ronaldo does with Portugal. > [@AK84](#): > > Messi cries like a little bitch. Sorry I’m late, guys, the conversation seems to have died down. You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/48 "2017-10-11T20:09:39Z")
> [@Leo\_Messi](#): > > Sorry I’m late, guys, the conversation seems to have died down. > > You were saying? Eh? They’ve scraped a qualification, they haven’t won a major championship. A single game doesn’t change the main point. No one would ever say he isn’t a brilliant player, nor that he doesn’t have great games for Argentina but the real measure by which he’ll be judged is by performances in the major championships and actually winning a trophy for his country. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/49 "2017-10-11T20:43:23Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > actually winning a trophy for his country. Aside from the Olympic gold he won, you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/50 "2017-10-11T21:03:43Z")
Olympics is a youth tournament. The indictments of Messi’s play for Argentina are almost entirely false, and the idea that you need to win a championship in a team sport in single elimination tournaments that are held every 4 years, is ridiculous. The idea that Ronaldo is GOAT because they advanced in the Euros on goal differential after failing to beat any of Iceland, Hungary, and Austria. Then they only beat one good team in the rest of the tournament, in a game Ronaldo didn’t play in! Well, I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/51 "2017-10-12T03:27:03Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > The call wasn’t just bad it was horrifically bad. Like the ref was on the take sort of bad. In fairness, the call was only bad in the sense that the officials shouldn’t have awarded the goal on the assumption it must have crossed the line. The assistant referee’s view would have been blocked by the bodies that were around the ball. The referee can’t have seen the ball over the line (it wasn’t), but may well thought it must have been because a) it looked like it was going over and b) he couldn’t see from where he was that it hadn’t actually gone over. But, as I reminded myself often when refereeing, I can’t award a goal I haven’t actually seen. Too bad CONCACAF hasn’t adopted goal-line technology. \ ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/52 "2017-10-12T07:39:39Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Olympics is a youth tournament. > > The indictments of Messi’s play for Argentina are almost entirely false, and the idea that you need to win a championship in a team sport in single elimination tournaments that are held every 4 years, is ridiculous. The idea that Ronaldo is GOAT because they advanced in the Euros on goal differential after failing to beat any of Iceland, Hungary, and Austria. Then they only beat one good team in the rest of the tournament, in a game Ronaldo didn’t play in! Well, I disagree. As you are free to do. At the moment he stands with all the other great players that didn’t win a major trophy with their national team (lots of great names in there…Cruyff, Eusebio, Puskas, Best) Rather than alongside those that have. Regardless of his technical ability (which is astonishing) he has a gap in his trophy cabinet and that matters, not least to him. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/53 "2017-10-12T10:25:25Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Olympics is a youth tournament. > > The indictments of Messi’s play for Argentina are almost entirely false, and the idea that you need to win a championship in a team sport in single elimination tournaments that are held every 4 years, is ridiculous. The idea that Ronaldo is GOAT because they advanced in the Euros on goal differential after failing to beat any of Iceland, Hungary, and Austria. Then they only beat one good team in the rest of the tournament, in a game Ronaldo didn’t play in! Well, I disagree. They would have failed to advance had it not been for CR7. He scored 3 goals and 3 assists. The goals against Hungary helped them advance. He also scored in the Semi Final and assisted in Nani’s second. Against a very good Croat team which beat Spain and which had Rakatic and Modrić in it it was he who opened up the defense and setup Quaresma’s winner. I agree with the above poster, Messi would give his right nut to win an International trophy. In the unlikely event the final is between Portugal and Argentina, will it be a match to decide the greatest of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125/54 "2017-10-16T18:10:25Z")
The result of a game that Ronaldo didn’t play in means he’s the GOAT? That’s the argument? Had Higuain finished that 1v1, Argentina would have won. So something that Messi wasn’t involved in would have made him better? Both of those assertions are ridiculous. Now, if you’re merely arguing that people will rank them (incorrectly) according to that, you might be correct. That just means most people have pretty shallow viewpoints. Might as well argue Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Dan Marino. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unthinkable-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-russia-2018/798125.md?page=2)