# Until death do us part..... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234 "2001-06-26T19:33:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234/41 "2001-06-30T18:09:45Z")
Maybe the words “Till death do you part” is meaningless in society, I don’t think the words are meaningless on a personal level. If 50% of marriages end in divorce, that still means that 50% are living up to their vows on a daily basis. I’m usually just as cynical as anybody else, but when you look at the current divorce rates, and just concentrate on the 50% that leave each other, I think you are doing the other half of the population a grave diservice. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234/42 "2001-07-02T15:03:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > Ah, so you **do** believe a marriage should be “enforceable,” then, even if one of (or both of?) the parties wants to opt out. Not sure what you mean by “enforceable”. People should not be forced to stay in a marriage against their wishes by either the state, church or other party. They certainly ought not be told that they have to stay together until one or both die - unless of course they agree to these terms. Truth is, most people don’t really think about it when they are about to get married. But I think more and more are starting to. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > Sounds to me like this “marriage contract” is not so much a nurturing vow, but a threat of punishment for not keeping up its terms. I agree. The marriage contract seems somehow inappropriate for a “meeting of true minds”. But hey, whatever flies one’s kite, I say. Just 'cuz it’s not my cup of tea does not mean it shouldn’t be John’s and Jane’s. But I think I’ve been unclear. The “contract” I was speaking of was the Marriage Certificate. In the eyes of the state, a couple is not actually married until they have signed one. The traditional ceremony is optional. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2001, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234/43 "2001-07-02T22:19:49Z")
**QuickSilver** wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > > Sounds to me like this “marriage contract” is not so much a nurturing vow, but a threat of punishment for not keeping up its terms. > > I agree. The marriage contract seems somehow inappropriate for a “meeting of true minds”. Wait a minute … a few messages ago, you said this: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Acco40_ > > Why does a personal commitment to someone have to be in writing to mean anything? > > Because in contract law, an agreement is not worth the paper it is not written on. So which is it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234/44 "2001-07-03T13:53:54Z")
I’m still not sure I understand what you are objecting to but let me see if I can figure it out on the second cut. I make a distinction (at least in my own mind) between a marriage _certificate_ and a marriage _contract_. When I responded to **Acco40** I was thinking of a marriage certificate which is issued to John and Jane by the state in recognition of the fact that they are legally married and shall be treated us such in tax and legal matters as set out by the statutes of the state in which they reside. When I responded to your post, I was thinking of a marriage contract which is a legal document drawn up by John and Jane and their lawyers. This document, as you well know, outlines some additional obligations that both John and Jane agree to assume in the context of their marriage and/or in case of a divorce. So, while I recognize that it is difficult to escape the state laws governing marriage, the marriage contract is entirely voluntary. I am not about to judge (too harshly) the people who opt to have a marriage contract. I may think it’s less than romantic and kind of fatalistic but then again, I am not them and neither I nor Mrs.QS are the heirs to the Reichmann fortune. So at the risk of answering your question with another question; Which is what? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2001, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234/45 "2001-07-03T21:13:56Z")
I addressed the fact that “til death do us part” is actually the least significant part of the vows [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1417155#post1417155). The other posters in that thread had even better points. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Acco40 \* > **There is an ugly aspect to marriage: neediness and dependancy. I don’t want someone to love me just because I love them.** There is a small engraved knick-knack sitting on our dresser. My wife and I bought it back near the time we first discussed getting married. It says: > [@](#): > > _I don’t love you because I need you. I need you because I love you._ Some may sneer and deride it as a simplistic, trite, bumper-sticker view of love, but IMHO, it sums things up just right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/until-death-do-us-part/70234.md?page=2)