# Untruthful Accusations **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724 "2002-12-01T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/21 "2002-12-01T05:07:14Z")
**H4E** , you may see it as sharing God’s word, but many that you are aiming that “word” at see it as casting stones. When you get stones cast your way, you don’t like it. That’s clear from this thread and from others you have been involved with. Well, those you cast stones at don’t like it either. I know, I know, you see it as “truth” and you see it as a favor. Maybe those getting on your case see what they are saying as “truth” too and maybe some even feel they are doing you a favor. Besides, I seem to remember a young Jewish fellow, a carpenter’s son, if I recall correctly, had some comments about casting stones. TV ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/22 "2002-12-01T05:08:07Z")
**His4ever** , if you want to dig yourself out of a hole, it’s usually wise to stop digging down. And if you could _PLEASE_ stop inferring that sexuality determines “lifestyle”, I’d be ever so grateful. Seeing as, y’know, it doesn’t. Oh, and it’s unbelievably cute that you compare homosexuality to drinking. Really, cute. I’d love to see that particular analogy fleshed out. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/23 "2002-12-01T05:11:11Z")
I’ll chime in here and ask **H4e** to stick around, we need diversity and discussion. Personal insults without provocation are bad, and by insults I include the condemnation of any particular group for their beliefs or for their sexual orientation. Your perspective would be welcome in discussions on religious understandings and perceptions, as long as you keep the idea in mind to speak about yourself and your feelings, and not be inflammatory to others. “I believe homosexuality/Catholicism/Adultery is wrong because…” is a lot better than “Homosexuals/Catholics/Adulterers are going to burn in hell because someone told me so in church.” Upon review, I apologize to **iampunha** for comparing homosexuals to Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Madhat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Madhat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madhat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/24 "2002-12-01T05:12:44Z")
**His4ever** - don’t sweat trying to explain yourself to everyone on this board. You can’t correct all misconceptions, so you have to learn to ignore the critics. Your words (like any poster’s) will always have more import than secondhand explanations of them. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/25 "2002-12-01T05:13:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I’ve never once said I hated anyone on this board, homosexuals included. I do not hate them; repeat, I do **not** hate them! When will you get that through your heads? It shouldn’t be necessary or required that I believe that this lifestyle is morally acceptable in order to convince you I don’t hate them. > \*\* I do not have a lifestyle. I have a **life**. My LIFE is just as valid as yours. To call MY LIFE a lifestyle is diminishing and degrading. When will you get it through your head that agreeing with people and treating them with respect is not the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/26 "2002-12-01T05:21:22Z")
Durn! There’s some really heavy stuff in this thread for MPSIMS. It does have a saving grace though; I am finally posting in a thread started by **H4E**. Hey **His4** , this is all a bit uptight for my tastes. I like threads about music and fun happy stuff, so; Wanna Dance? “Earth Angel, Earth Angel, will you be mine My darling dear, love you all the time I’m just a fool, a fool in love with yoooouu” That one was by the Penguins, ya’ know. Rock on, Babe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/27 "2002-12-01T05:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I will only say what I believe He says about it, and people can make up their own minds to believe it, ignore it, reinterpret it or whatever. As I pointed out in the other thread, it’s not your job to be telling other people what you believe God says about their conduct because **you are not God.**. Really, you’re not. Don’t judge people’s conduct, don’t tell people how to live their lives, don’t tell them what to do, or how you think God will judge them–it’s NOT your job. Your job is to tell God’s good news, not to tell people what you think God thinks of them. Don’t be a Pharisee. And you would get a lot more respect if you had posted your OP in the relevant thread instead of opening this thread here where, I guess, you figured people couldn’t argue with you. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/28 "2002-12-01T05:56:03Z")
Hi **His4ever**!!. I know I’ve been away from the boards for a while and I just read the one linked to in this thread which leads me to this question for you. Are you having fun? I know debating isn’t always _fun_ but I notice that most of the time you are defending yourself in some sort of religious debate and I was wondering if that’s fun for you? Are you learning and growing here? If you are that’s wonderful and I really hope you are. I am just curious to know why you always say you’re going to “bow out” but you don’t. I’m not here to criticize you. I’m only here as a “back in town” sort of lurker. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/29 "2002-12-01T06:08:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Madhat \* > You can’t correct all misconceptions, so you have to learn to ignore the critics. Well, she’s been doing a pretty good job of ignoring 99% of everything that’s been said to her… > [@](#): > > Your words … will always have more import than secondhand explanations of them. Okay, _this_ has got to be one of the most unintentional “words of wisdom” ever spotted on this board. Ten points to anyone who can tell me why;) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/30 "2002-12-01T06:12:16Z")
My take on this is that it’s basically a continuation of the ongoing **Pit** thread. Off to the **Pit**. * * * **Cajun Man** - SDMB Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/31 "2002-12-01T06:53:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I’m sure that eventually I probably will bow out of the SDMB. However, that will be my choice as to when I do that. \*\* I have read that some here have said that they would like you to stick around because we need diversity, and I agree, but… I don’t think we need your kind of diversity… Now I have stayed out of any threads you have been in, for the most part, but seeing as this is now in the Pit, and in response to your post, just hurry up and leave. Your bigotry makes me fucking sick. Go live in your _‘perfect world’_ and do us a favor, don’t procreate anymore than you have. Please. We have enough bigots, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/32 "2002-12-01T07:01:59Z")
So, **His4ever** , you might at some point decide to be banned? Just asking, you know… ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/33 "2002-12-01T07:19:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*So, **His4ever** , you might at some point decide to be banned? Just asking, you know… \*\* Wouldn’t surprise me…easier to say that she went down fighting than quit… ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/34 "2002-12-01T07:32:27Z")
His4ever Do you have any idea what kind of damage you do to any sort of credibility you might possibly have with non-believers when you get in middle of something like this, and then refuse to respond to coments and just bow out? And not just damage to your credibility, but to Christians in general? The thing is, every one of us sins, and every Christian I have ever know will continue to sin until the day they die, and most do things that either do not admit to themselves are sinful, or honestly dont know that they are. To say that Homosexuals are somehow worse than the rest of us is hypocritical and arrogant. As Christians, we are to spread the word of God, not enforce it. The message of salvation is enough, let God worry about what is sinful and what isnt, the rest will take care of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/35 "2002-12-01T07:46:05Z")
My hat’s off to you, **bdgr**. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/36 "2002-12-01T08:03:45Z")
Someone once said, “If the [fundamentalist] is behaving politely, you ought to respond politely and debate.” To which a very wise person said, “There’s a polite way to say ‘you are an abomination before God’?” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/37 "2002-12-01T08:26:47Z")
**His4Ever** First off: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by His4Ever_ > I’m sure that eventually I probably will bow out of the SDMB. However, that will be my choice as to when I do that. I certainly hope not, I find your posts interesting and appreciate the views you bring to the SDMB. Being an atheist, I have never agreed with your spiritual views; however the discussions, which may not have occured without you, have led me to examine my faith and have given me deeper insights into my beliefs, christianity and religion in general. Now to the point: I can relate to Kirklands anger, though I don’t agree with it. I grew up in a family containing many fundementalists that make you look tame by comparison. I found myself being alienated by the hate and swore off all religion when I was around 16. Yes, that’s right, the hate. There are so many christians (and jews, and islamic people, etc…) in this world that are consumed by hate and use their religion as a motive for killing and harming those they hate. For example: [Fred Phelps](http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html) [Not nice people](http://www.armyofgod.com/) [James C. Kopp](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/slepian990505.html) I could go on and bring up the crimes perpetuated in Isreal, the west bank, India, Pakistan, Russia, or even close this thread by invoking Godwin’s law, but I hope my point is clear. There are many people in this world that do not see christianity as a loving religion. They see it as the font for the the things that harm them and their families. Take a look at what [Kirk said:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2653912#post2653912) > [@](#): > > _Originally Posted by Kirkland1244_ > \ …thanks to people like His, gays get beaten – often to death – on a very regular basis in this country. And thanks to people like His, it is harder and harder to get our government to pass hate crimes laws and the like to try to stop this situation. And thanks to people like His, gay teens kill themselves at a stunning rate, for fear of being abused and rejected by their friends, families and peers. His’ hands are caked in blood, just like those of everyone like her. I understand this feeling. I do not think you are responsible. I do not think christianity is responsible. I do believe however, that many of the crimes being perpetuated on homosexuals are done by “christians” that think they are doing the world a favor. I know these people are not christians, but they say they are. I have actually learned new respect for christian views lately (thanks Lib), and been able to confront my own rejection of the faith and the reasons behind it. You are responsible for me being able to do this, and for that I must thank you very much. When the only message that you can spread is that people who are behaving in a certain way are sinners and will go to hell if they do not repent, you will repel more people than you will convert. I have been able to examine my reaction to my family and its faith because you sound very much like them. They were always talking about how this group would go to hell because of x and that this group was doomed to eternal fire because of y. Their version of christianity never said anything about the love. Their version of christianity never said anything about forgiveness. Their version of christianity was, in my view, hatred. You seem like a nice person from the posts I have read (though a little single minded). You seem open to discussing your views which is always appreciated around here. However, you do need to work on your persuasiveness. Let God do the judging, that is not for you. Why don’t you concentrate on convincing people to live a christian life. Sorry for the wandering nature of this rant, but hey, it’s late. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/38 "2002-12-01T08:33:47Z")
You want a graphic photo warning on that second link there, **Eyer8** , and I didn’t look at the third one for fear of more of the same. Not that your first link isn’t just as horrifying in its own way. His4Ever, hang in there. Don’t worry about the people who are obviously out to get you. You need to address the others, though, for bdgr’s reasons above. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/39 "2002-12-01T09:14:35Z")
**His4Ever** , you may have noticed that Kirkland got jumped on immediately and rather forcefully by a bunch of other people, and far more forcefully than I’ve seen people jump on you. Look, thanks to you, I’ve come out of the closet, so to speak. Your choice, to break vows sworn before God twice, is, in my opinion, a sinful one. If I shared your views, I would tell you that your lifestyle is sinful. How is breaking your oath to God less sinful than genuinely loving someone or a biological preference over which one has no control? You have said yourself that you could not live by the standards you would impose on others. You have also shown cruelty, directly violating Christ’s second commandment, by telling homosexuals, Catholics, and Mormons that they are doomed to eternal damnation. I realize you probably think your acting out of kindness and concern, but the result is cruelty and pain. Look, despite appearances, I’m really not out to judge you. I’m just pointing out that you, too, commit sins and can just as easily be considered to be living a sinful lifestyle as anyone you’ve said that to. I’m on-line now because I’ve got a touch of insomnia, but read what I said in the other thread on page 5. Here’s a [direct link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=146632&perpage=50&pagenumber=5) to that page. I don’t hate you. Actually, I feel sorry for you, and I hate it when I see you hurting yourself and others. Please, ask yourself how you would respond if I told you you were living a sinful lifestyle and couldn’t change it because it’s due to acts you have already committed and cannot undo. I do not condemn you. It’s not my place to do so. If I were physically here, rather than just being words on a monitor screen, I would wrap my arms around you and offer you a cup of hot chocolate with marshmallows as we wept for “things done and left undone” as my church’s Confession of Sin puts it. Our church’s takes on our mutual Christianity are very foreign to each other. Sometimes I’m sure I can hear you saying, “Formal Confession?!” just as loudly as I sometimes say “Grape juice?!” The thing is, it’s _because_ of our differences that we can learn from each other, grow as Christians, and better serve the Lord we love. Stick around, please? CJ the insomniac ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/40 "2002-12-01T12:38:59Z")
H4E, here’s some words of wisdom (or near-wisdom, or whatever)… I do not identify myself as a “Christian”. I do not consider myself to be religious, I do not consider myself to be faithful or devout or one of “God’s children”. I do not deny either of these things, either. I have a Bible that I keep beside my desk. I read it quite often. Some of my favorite passages involve forgiveness (seventy times seven) and love. > [@](#): > > Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. - _Luke 6:37_ I know that you feel that you’re doing good, that you’re helping people, but please please PLEASE believe me when I say that you are not doing God’s will. God doesn’t want you to judge others. God doesn’t want you telling others how sinful they are. A person’s life is between that person and God. If you feel you must pray for them, go right ahead, but remember… > [@](#): > > And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say say unto you, They have their reward. / But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and they Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. - _Matthew 6:5-6_ You’re focusing a lot on some very small and very unimportant parts of scripture. Sure, God said that man shouldn’t lie with man as he would with woman… so what? That was in the Old Testament, which Christ said was fulfilled, anyway… > [@](#): > > Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. - _Matthew 5:17_ Christ made it quite clear what was important. He said that love is what is most important. What you do, my dear H4E, is not love… it is spite, it is mean, it is uncompassionate, it is cold. It sows dischord and disruption. It causes pain and hurt. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I know that you want nothing but the best for everyone, but in your passion to serve God, you have wound up breaking God’s law… > [@](#): > > Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all they soul, and with all thy mind. / This is the first and great commandment. / And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - _Matthew 22:37-39_ If I were you, I would just accept your faith and keep it between yourself and God, and try to show kindness and understanding - not judgment or criticism - of those that you might consider sinful… for, if they are sinful, that is between _them_ and God. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724.md?page=3)