# Untruthful Accusations **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724 "2002-12-01T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/141 "2002-12-02T19:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > H4e was called to task for hypocricy, not to condemn her divorces as immoral. Horseshit. If her divorces were not immoral, then there is no basis for calling her a hypocrite. If they were, then she was being condemned. > [@](#): > > If you heap your own moral values onto others unasked, you better make damn sure your own record is clean, or someone, sooner or later, WILL present you with a mirror. Welcome to the Straight Dope. Which is darn close to what I have been complaining about in other gay-related threads more than once. All the talk about how we need to be tolerant of differences - unless those differences lie in how we regard homosexuality, in which case people tell you that you deserve to be raped, and beaten, and you are “a horrible person”, and all the rest of it. If no one can criticize anyone else unless they are perfect, the rest of us better shut up too. And there goes the Pit. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/142 "2002-12-02T19:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > All the talk about how we need to be tolerant of differences - unless those differences lie in how we regard homosexuality, in which case people tell you that you deserve to be raped, and beaten, and you are “a horrible person”, and all the rest of it. Most of that came from the late **Kirkland** , who is now banned. Let assume that I have seen the Light and become a fundamentalist. I join a church that teaches that, according to Genesis 9:20-27, black people are racially and spiritually inferior to white people. Let us say that I share this teaching with the SDMB. Should I whine that people are being unfair to me? Should I expect people to be tolerant of my virews and not to engage them? What you seem to want, **Shodan** , is a safe haven for religion-based bigotry, to which I retort, “PBBBBTTTTHHHHHH!” You call me sinful, I’ll call you a bigot, world withjout end, amen. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/143 "2002-12-02T19:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*All the talk about how we need to be tolerant of differences - unless those differences lie in how we regard homosexuality, in which case people tell you that you deserve to be raped, and beaten, and you are “a horrible person”, and all the rest of it. > Regards, > Shodan \*\* Shodan, I don’t think you are being very fair here in this case. The ONE person who committed the majority of those insults has been banned. Is there really a need to lay his comments on the innocent people here? There were many who argued with him regarding his comments, the same ‘people’ that you now seem to brush with this all encompassing brush of brutality. Also, is ‘horrible person’ any worse than ‘abomination in God’s eyes’? Not sure if she sends her regards quite yet 😉 , Lady of the Lake ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/144 "2002-12-02T19:45:23Z")
You really are a simpleton, Shodan. The basis for calling her a hypocrite is not that her divorce is immoral. The hyprocrisy charge arises from her insisting that gay folk obey a strict interpretation when she allows a looser interpretation for herself. That is hyprocrisy. And it is **truthful** in spite of the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/145 "2002-12-02T19:45:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*If her divorces were not immoral, then there is no basis for calling her a hypocrite. If they were, then she was being condemned. \*\* I don’t think that anyone’s views on divorce besides **H4e’s** enter into it. If those beliefs are coupled (i.e., the views on homosexuality and divorce) (which they seem to be, by their treatment in the Bible), then the disregard of one and the espousing of the other is the basis for the hypocrisy accusation. Looking at that, I don’t know if that came out quite right, but I hope you take my meaning. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/146 "2002-12-02T20:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Disagreeing with “us”? Who’s “us”? \*\* Why the SDMB clique [sup] TM[/sup] , Coldy…How silly of you. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/147 "2002-12-02T20:00:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > If her divorces were not immoral, then there is no basis for calling her a hypocrite. If they were, then she was being condemned. Huh? No, really, what the heck are you babbling about? It matters not one whit whether her divorces are immoral. What matters is whether she believes they are immoral while simultaneously denouncing similar immorality when she perceives it in other people. H4e concedes that divorce followed by remarriage is fornication, yet continues to change her ways by ceasing to live in a state of (what she believes to be) sin with her current husband. Meanwhile, H4e admonishes others that homosexual behavior is a sin, and that they _should_ change their ways by ceasing to do gay stuff. (Not sure whether that includes show tunes, or just the sex bits. She’s been a little vague on where the line is.) Nobody but nobody accused H4e of immoral behavior by divorcing and remarrying. They accused her of immoral behavior due to the hypocricy of refusing to forego her own sexual “immorality” while telling others that they should forego _their_ sexual “immorality.” Regardless, minty green ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/148 "2002-12-02T20:10:39Z")
Uhmm, actually, I said that **His4Ever** ’s behaviour is immoral in my view, even though I consider her first divorce to be necessary. I have also said that I refuse to judge her on it, although I did ask if she would like me to, because, again in my opinion, it’s not my call. Actually, the cruelty she’s shown others bothers me far more than her marital status. I realize she doesn’t intend to be cruel, but she’s been told on more than one occaission that her actions are cruel. CJ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/149 "2002-12-02T20:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > They accused her of immoral behavior due to the hypocricy of refusing to forego her own sexual “immorality” while telling others that they should forego their sexual “immorality.” Hey, let’s _all_ be guilty of sexual immorality–I’ll bring the Astroglide! ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/150 "2002-12-02T20:20:32Z")
**cjhoworth** , you judgmental _bitch_! (Somehow, I don’t think your nonjudgmental opinion was on **Shodan** ’s radar screen, but I stand corrected. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/151 "2002-12-02T20:20:49Z")
You bring astroglide. Is **Astro** going to be there? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/152 "2002-12-02T20:32:27Z")
**Shodan** , she says that homosexuality is immoral-BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO. However, when we pointed out to her that divorce and remarriage are also listed as immoral IN THE BIBLE, she brushes it off. She’s a Cafeteria Christian, though she denies it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/153 "2002-12-02T20:42:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Huh? No, really, what the heck are you babbling about? It matters not one whit whether her divorces are immoral. What matters is whether she believes they are immoral while simultaneously denouncing similar immorality when she perceives it in other people. What I am “babbling” about is known as the “genetic fallacy”. The biggest hypocrite in the world can say that it is wrong to commit murder, and this has absolutely no effect on whether it is or is not. [Did you require a cite?](http://gncurtis.home.texas.net/genefall.html) See also “tu quoque”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/154 "2002-12-02T20:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > However, when we pointed out to her that divorce and remarriage are also listed as immoral IN THE BIBLE, she brushes it off. > > She’s a Cafeteria Christian, though she denies it. Matthew 19:9-12. Sorry for the double post; I didn’t see your post on preview. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/155 "2002-12-02T21:08:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\ ***His4ever** has never called anyone on the board a horrible person. She has stated that she thinks that homosexuality is a sin. Thats why its called a parody. If I just told her that christians like her are sinners and going to hell it would not be one. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/156 "2002-12-02T21:11:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > What I am “babbling” about is known as the “genetic fallacy”. The biggest hypocrite in the world can say that it is wrong to commit murder, and this has absolutely no effect on whether it is or is not. Shodan, your willful ignorance continues to astound me. It is entirely irrelevant to the accusation of hypocrisy whether divorce and remarriage are in fact immoral. It is H4e’s _belief_ that such behavior is immoral and her conscious refusal to _act_ in accordance with that belief that makes her a hypocrite, just as a person who _believes_ murder is wrong and still _commits_ murder is a hypocrite. Regardless, minty green P.S.–Did you even bother to read the definition of the genetic fallacy before you blathered on about it? Sayeth the link: “It is fallacious to either endorse or condemn an idea based on its past–rather than on its present–merits or demerits, unless its past in some way affects its present value.” Sure, and that’s germane to this discussion in exactly what way? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/157 "2002-12-02T21:14:02Z")
I think he confused a general genetic fallacy with the more specific poison well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/158 "2002-12-02T23:03:18Z")
No, actually the “tu quoque” on the same page, which is a more specific example of the genetic fallacy. “I think homosexuality is wrong.” “Oh yeah - well, it is not, because you’re a hypocrite.” That sort of thing. Sorry you don’t get it, **minty**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/159 "2002-12-02T23:21:19Z")
**Shodan** , I don’t think the original thread was ever about the right-ness or wrong-ness of homosexuality. It’s quite possible that it may have been brought up, but the focus of the OP was strictly on the (appearance of) hypocrisy on the part of **J\_C** , **JD** , and **H4e**. Of course, it’s now gotten to what, 7 pages? Probably everything’s been said at least once in there by now. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724/160 "2002-12-02T23:22:23Z")
Once again, you astoundingly refuse to get the point of the argument. The title of the thread accused her of being a hyprocrite, not of being wrong in her assessment of homosexuality. That she _is_ wrong about homosexuality is irrelevant to the fact of her hypocrisy, which depends entirely on the failure of her actions to conform to her beliefs, particularly while expecting the actions of others to conform to her beliefs. Sorry you don’t get it, **Shodan**. Regardless, minty green [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/untruthful-accusations/139724.md?page=9)