# Unusual HIV transmission **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 25, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771 "2004-07-25T06:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/1 "2004-07-25T06:21:03Z")
Have there been any documented cases of people contracting HIV in a manner other than the accepted sexual intercourse, intravenous drug use and blood transfusion? Which of these would be theoretically most possible: Contraction through mosquito bite, contaminated toilet seat, sharing of a note to snort cocaine or being spat at? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/2 "2004-07-25T06:25:55Z")
No :o ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/3 "2004-07-25T06:30:32Z")
I don’t know about documented cases, but according to [this](http://info.dhhs.state.nc.us/olm/manuals/dss/csm-60/man/CS1436-02.htm) North Carolina government site: > [@](#): > > **How HIV is NOT spread** > > You cannot “catch” AIDs or HIV infection like a cold or the flu. It is not spread by coughs or sneezes. > > You cannot get HIV through everyday contact with infected people at school, work, home, or anywhere else. > > You won’t get HIV from clothing, phones, or toilet seats. It cannot be passed on by things like spoons, cups or other objects that someone who is infected with the virus has used. > > You won’t get AIDS from a mosquito bite. The AIDS virus does not live in a mosquito and is not transmitted through a mosquito’s salivary glands like other diseases such as malaria or yellow fever. You won’t get it from bed bugs, lice, flies, or other insects. You won’t get HIV from sweat, tears, or sneezes. > > Although in the past some people became infected with HIV from blood transfusions, this risk has been virtually eliminated. Since 1985 all donated blood has been tested for evidence of HIV, and blood that contains evidence of HIV is discarded. > > You cannot get HIV from giving blood at a blood bank or other established blood center. Needles used for blood donations are sterile and are used only once before they are destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/4 "2004-07-25T06:37:13Z")
You can be born with it, if your mother had it while she was pregnant with you. You might be able to get it from nursing, if your mother has it, but probably not. Other than that, there are no documented routes of infection that don’t include needles, or sex. But, as we all know Priests, Politicians, and the very rich have means available which the rest of us must do without. Tris ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/5 "2004-07-25T06:37:50Z")
Also, if you want a more thorough overview of modes of HIV transmission, check out the HIV/AIDS section at the [United States Centers for Disease Control](http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm) website. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/6 "2004-07-25T06:52:36Z")
While I can’t provide a cite, I remember hearing a weird anecdote (official, documented, in the legitimate news) about one woman transmitting it to another through use of a shared dildo. Apparently, the first woman used the dildo so hard that it became “tinged with blood” and then the second woman used it. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/7 "2004-07-25T06:59:58Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > Apparently, the first woman used the dildo so hard that it became “tinged with blood” and then the second woman used it. Then why would this be surprising at all? ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/8 "2004-07-25T07:03:00Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Then why would this be surprising at all? Because it answers the OP’s question, “other than blood transfusion, sex, or drug use.” ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/9 "2004-07-25T07:06:02Z")
So, you’re saying that mutual masturbation isn’t sex? I don’t know that I’d agree with you, there. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/10 "2004-07-25T08:21:07Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I don’t know about documented cases, but according to [this](http://info.dhhs.state.nc.us/olm/manuals/dss/csm-60/man/CS1436-02.htm) North Carolina government site: It doesn’t matter what the NC Government says. It may be rare, but I think it is very possible to contact HIV through toilet seats, or a mosquito bite. For example, if a mosquito lands on an AIDS victim, sucks some blood, gets swatted off, but doesn’t die. The mosquito can then land on the next person and do it again, WITH THE BLOOD OF THE AIDS VICTIM STILL IN, AND AROUND THE MOSQUITOS NEEDLE/STINGER THINGIE. Need I even bring up the possbility of a womens menstration cycle and toilet seats? Not possible? Rare (maybe never even documented), but I don’t think it’s safe to say to a 100% certainty that you cannot contract it by these methods. Especially in this day and age. We may know quite a bit about AIDS, but I think we only know about 40% of it as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/11 "2004-07-25T10:00:16Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the NC Government says. It may be rare, but I think it is very possible to contact HIV through toilet seats, or a mosquito bite. For example, if a mosquito lands on an AIDS victim, sucks some blood, gets swatted off, but doesn’t die. The mosquito can then land on the next person and do it again, WITH THE BLOOD OF THE AIDS VICTIM STILL IN, AND AROUND THE MOSQUITOS NEEDLE/STINGER THINGIE. > > Need I even bring up the possbility of a womens menstration cycle and toilet seats? Not possible? Rare (maybe never even documented), but I don’t think it’s safe to say to a 100% certainty that you cannot contract it by these methods. Especially in this day and age. > > We may know quite a bit about AIDS, but I think we only know about 40% of it as a whole. The nose/stinger of a mosquito is called a proboscois I believe though I may be off on the spelling. HIV does not live very long outside the body which is why transmission via toilet seats et al is unheard of. You seem quite paranoid. Just because you think something is possible doesn’t mean that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/12 "2004-07-25T11:20:18Z")
There is at least one known [case](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3080244.stm) of suspected HIV transmission through shared use of razor blades. The same article mentions a possible transmission through a mother applying ointment to her son’s psoriasis scales. The risk of such a transmission is negligible and can be completely avoided by either not sharing razors or properly sterilizing razors between uses. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/13 "2004-07-25T12:11:32Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > WITH THE BLOOD OF THE AIDS VICTIM STILL IN, AND AROUND THE MOSQUITOS NEEDLE/STINGER THINGIE. > > Need I even bring up the possbility of a womens menstration cycle and toilet seats? Not possible? Rare (maybe never even documented), but I don’t think it’s safe to say to a 100% certainty that you cannot contract it by these methods. Especially in this day and age. > > We may know quite a bit about AIDS, but I think we only know about 40% of it as a whole. Wouldn’t those basically be a form of blood transfusion? ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/14 "2004-07-25T12:25:28Z")
Wasn’t there a case where some patients of an HIV+ dentist infected a patient? It’s one of those things I vaguely remember hearing about, but I don’t remember specifics. [This case](http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq29.htm) may be the one I’m thinking of - the time frame feels about right for what I think I remember. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/15 "2004-07-25T12:28:01Z")
> [@](#): > > It is important to bear in mind that whilst HIV may live for some time outside the body, HIV transmission has not been reported as a consequence of contact with spillages of blood, semen or other body fluids. Given the number of health care workers who come into contact with HIV–infected body fluids, it is reasonable to assume that infections by this route would have been detected by now if contact with small quantities of HIV in dried blood or other body fluids were possible. [http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/01804207-6630-47D2-A18E-0E620317BC3D.asp](http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/01804207-6630-47D2-A18E-0E620317BC3D.asp) > [@](#): > > Drying of HIV- infected human blood or other body fluids reduces the theoretical risk of environmental transmission to that which has been observed–essentially zero [http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite.jsp?doc=2098.3e62&page=pr-04-02](http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite.jsp?doc=2098.3e62&page=pr-04-02) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/16 "2004-07-25T12:29:58Z")
> [@Lsura](#): > > Wasn’t there a case where some patients of an HIV+ dentist infected a patient? It’s one of those things I vaguely remember hearing about, but I don’t remember specifics. [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/maids2.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/maids2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/17 "2004-07-25T13:41:32Z")
> [@Joey P](#): > > Wouldn’t those basically be a form of blood transfusion? No. You need a significant viral load to acquire the HIV virus. The HIV virus does not reproduce in the mosquito, so there is no way to increase the miniscule viral load present in the amount of blood the mosquito would drink, even if sipping from an AIDS patient with very high viral titers. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/18 "2004-07-25T14:01:29Z")
Several cases of non traditional transmission, including fluid spills, fights, biting, contact with faeces, razor usage are reported [here](http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/CEE1BE7C-9563-491E-9673-153519ACA87F.asp). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/19 "2004-07-25T15:01:54Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the NC Government says. It may be rare, but I think it is very possible to contact HIV through toilet seats, or a mosquito bite. For example, if a mosquito lands on an AIDS victim, sucks some blood, gets swatted off, but doesn’t die. The mosquito can then land on the next person and do it again, WITH THE BLOOD OF THE AIDS VICTIM STILL IN, AND AROUND THE MOSQUITOS NEEDLE/STINGER THINGIE. You “think”? Is this just some crystal-like “feeling” you have, or is it supported by some research and evidence? Because the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm) has the following to say: > [@](#): > > From the onset of the HIV epidemic, there has been concern about transmission of the virus by biting and bloodsucking insects. However, studies conducted by researchers at CDC and elsewhere have shown no evidence of HIV transmission through insects–even in areas where there are many cases of AIDS and large populations of insects such as mosquitoes. Lack of such outbreaks, despite intense efforts to detect them, supports the conclusion that HIV is not transmitted by insects. > > The results of experiments and observations of insect biting behavior indicate that when an insect bites a person, it does not inject its own or a previously bitten person’s or animal’s blood into the next person bitten. Rather, it injects saliva, which acts as a lubricant or anticoagulant so the insect can feed efficiently. Such diseases as yellow fever and malaria are transmitted through the saliva of specific species of mosquitoes. However, HIV lives for only a short time inside an insect and, unlike organisms that are transmitted via insect bites, HIV does not reproduce (and does not survive) in insects. Thus, even if the virus enters a mosquito or another sucking or biting insect, the insect does not become infected and cannot transmit HIV to the next human it feeds on or bites. HIV is not found in insect feces. > > There is also no reason to fear that a biting or bloodsucking insect, such as a mosquito, could transmit HIV from one person to another through HIV-infected blood left on its mouth parts. Two factors serve to explain why this is so–first, infected people do not have constant, high levels of HIV in their bloodstreams and, second, insect mouth parts do not retain large amounts of blood on their surfaces. Further, scientists who study insects have determined that biting insects normally do not travel from one person to the next immediately after ingesting blood. Rather, they fly to a resting place to digest this blood meal. Kind of puts a damper on your theory about the “stinger thingie,” doesn’t it? > [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Need I even bring up the possbility of a womens menstration cycle and toilet seats? Not possible? Rare (maybe never even documented), but I don’t think it’s safe to say to a 100% certainty that you cannot contract it by these methods. Especially in this day and age. What do you mean “in this day and age”? In this day and age, intensive research has established that HIV has a very short lifespan outside the body of a host. And that research, according to the same CDC website, is usually conducted with samples that have a _much higher_ concentration of the virus than a typical human carrier. Furthermore, your example assumes that a toilet user is likely to park his or her ass on a toilet seat that has a rather large visible splotch of blood on it, that the blood itself is still infected with HIV, and that the blood will come into contact with a mucous membrane or will be able to get in through the skin. I’m sure that, if a specific laboratory experiment were set up providing ideal conditions for this to happen, it _might_ be possible for someone to become infected, but to assert, in the face of all the evidence to the contrary, that this is possible mode of transmission in the real world is likely to do nothing except cause unnecessary hysteria. Hell, we’ve already established on these boards that [plenty of people](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=267213) don’t even allow their ass to touch the seat in public restrooms. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771/20 "2004-07-25T15:16:21Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the NC Government says. It may be rare, but I think it is very possible to contact HIV through toilet seats, or a mosquito bite. For example, if a mosquito lands on an AIDS victim, sucks some blood, gets swatted off, but doesn’t die. The mosquito can then land on the next person and do it again, WITH THE BLOOD OF THE AIDS VICTIM STILL IN, AND AROUND THE MOSQUITOS NEEDLE/STINGER THINGIE. > . I could swear there was a column on this. But I can’t find it. I do know that several of the doctors and biologists on the SDMB have explained exactly why HIV transmission by mosquito is impossible. **Brachyrynchos** has a doctorate in biology, is employed as an ornithologist by a university, and has done plenty of study of mosquitoes as vectors. I will take her explanation of why I can’t get AIDS from a mosquito bite over your groundless fear that I can. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-hiv-transmission/256771.md?page=2)